We're Not Marketers

We Spent Three Years Hiding From Dave Gerhardt at His Own Event

Eric Holland and Gab Bujold recorded this one on a deck in Stowe, Vermont, in the middle of Drive, with a cardboard cutout of Zach standing in for the third host. It is the first We're Not Marketers episode made in person, and it is mostly about why t...

Why Is Every Product Marketer Suddenly Being Asked to Make Video? w/ Natalie Taylor

Video landed on every marketer's plate this year. Nobody added headcount for it, and nobody explained how to actually get one made. Natalie Taylor runs marketing at Capsule, where enterprise teams like HubSpot, ServiceNow and Instacart build on-brand...

PMA Offered Us $200. We Said "No Deal", and Built Our Own Event

This is the Death to Marketing episode. Zach, Eric and Gab take stock of what it has actually cost to build a conference from nothing: the $200 sponsorship offer that set the whole thing in motion, the $90,000 in sponsors they have since closed, the 4...

How a Guy Who Graded Film Got Tricked Into Product Marketing w/ Jason Druss

Jason Druss spent 15 years being the customer — a film colorist at Warner Bros, NFL Films, and his own Philly boutique — before Adobe pulled him into product marketing for Premier Pro and After Effects. In this episode, Jason (Principal Product Market...

AI is killing your marketing (one way to fix) w/ Gila Shapiro

Some of B2B are the cool kids shouting "synergy" with spinach dip in hand. Gila Shapiro — copywriter, PMM, and resident chaos agent at Fireflies.ai — joined the crew to roast corporate buzzwords, expose "copy thinking" and "copy pasting" with AI, and...

Allergic to bullshit marketing w/ Louis Grenier

Louis Grenier has run a podcast called Everyone Hates Marketers for 8 years. He's not here to be nice about it. In this episode, Lou breaks down why product marketing only exists because B2B tech forgot what customers actually want — and why your posi...

“I’m Just A Normal PMM Trying To Survive” (with David Lim)

Are product marketers actually marketers, or are they just glorified slide deck designers waiting for sales to bark orders? David Lim—a PMM who's survived Google, HP, and multiple startups—joins the skeleton crew to drop some uncomfortable truths. We...

The Anti-ICP Strategy: How To Use Your Website to Fire Bad Prospects w/ BX Studio

Product marketers think they own the messaging. SEO thinks they own the traffic. But who actually owns your website—and why are they both probably wrong? In this spicy debate with BX Studio, we dig into the turf war destroying B2B websites, why your C...

Strategy over fluffy jargon w/ Crystal Crouch

Crystal Crouch turned driving the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile into a product marketing empire - and she's not keeping the secrets. The woman who put Zach on the consulting path drops truth bombs about why 90% of company data is garbage, why product manag...

No salary is worth your soul with Hattie the PMM

Product marketers aren't marketers—they're architects while everyone else chooses to paint walls (no shade). Hattie the PMM shares her brutal journey from respected CEO to crying on calls as a micromanaged IC, revealing why PMM respect disappeared the...

Why Product Marketing only lives (and dies) in B2B tech with Garrett Jestice

Product marketing is marketing at it's purest form (not our words) —but only if we redefine what marketing actually means. Garrett Jestice, founder of Prelude, explains why tech companies get marketing backwards, how AI shifts risk from building to se...

Are you the Sales B*tch or the trusted PMM? w/ Drew Giovannoli

Your PMM credibility is at stake, CRO demands more leads, without knowing what's winning revenue. Sounds familiar? Drew Giovannoli, founder of Buried Wins, calls it the 'sales deck monkey'. Don't get him wrong, as he believes PMMs should help seller...

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How curiosity didn't kill the cat w/ Amanda Groves

Product marketers aren't marketers—they're non-conformist rebels! Amanda Groves, VP of PMM at Enable, who rocketed from IC to VP in just 2 years explains why. She breaks down why PMMs need to be trolls under bridges, why slowing down actually speeds y...

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Being human is your coolest feature w/ Nick Power

Marketers have become glorified executors, and, Nick Power isn't here to sugarcoat it. The lowercase LinkedIn legend– who also leads marketing at Noun Project– joins us to explain why your strategy docs are bullshit, why he'd delete his digital presen...

Measure important stuff or die trying w/ Pranav Piyush

Product marketing—marketing's favorite misunderstood stepchild or just expensive project management in disguise?  Pranav Piyush (ex-Dropbox, ex-Bill, founder of Paramark) joins the crew to drop some inconvenient truths: most PMMs are stuck doing thank...

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Why B2B events sucks for PMMs? (And why we’re starting our own)

Season five kicks off with the announcement nobody asked for but everyone needed: We're Not Marketers is throwing an event, and it's nothing like the stale hotel ballroom marathons you're used to.  Eric, Zach, and Gab break down why they're risking it...

Klue (battlecards) don't close deals, buying champions do

AI-powered competitive intel is the new snake oil, and executives are buying it by the gallon. While everyone's obsessing over ChatGPT doing their research in 20 minutes, they're missing the point entirely—your buying champions don't need a 30-page re...

Become a Mini-CEO: Inside the PMM Consultant’s Playbook w/ Alex Virden

What happens when a product marketer leaves the in-house grind to start her own consultancy? According to Alex Virden, it changed how she saw product marketing entirely. In this episode, Virdical founder shares why PMMs aren’t traditional marketers, h...

There is no line between brand and product marketing w/ Jon Itkin

If you’ve ever felt a gap between brand and product marketing, we’ve had an expert who’s been in both roles and is telling us that there’s not that different. Brand and product marketing expert Jon Itkin joins We're Not Marketers to dismantle outdated...

PMMs, MarTech, and making AI actually useful w/ Phil Gamache

Is product marketing really marketing? Or is it something more (or less)? In this deep-dive episode, Humans of MarTech co-founder Phil Gamache joins the crew to unpack what it truly means to be a marketer today—and why product marketing often feels li...