The Octus Download

EP 37 | LIV Golf's $5 Billion Bogey, Rich Dad Poor Dad's Debt Flex & The Invite

Everybody in this episode is playing with other people's money. Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt warm up with the Emmys (02:05), then get to LIV Golf (04:56), the Saudi Public Investment Fund's $5 billion swing at the PGA Tour, now in a New Jersey bankruptcy in front of friend of the pod Judge Michael Kaplan. TV money was about 5% of revenue, against as much as 67% at the PGA Tour. BC Partners is anchoring a $300 million plan to relaunch the league with the players as owners, and the real prize may be $5 billion in net operating losses (13:44). What neither host can figure out is why any golfer would take this deal (16:14). Then it's Rich Dad Poor Dad (22:47). Robert Kiyosaki loves telling people he's $1.2 billion in debt, so Vanity Fair sent a reporter to his Arizona home to find out how the get rich guy got there. His actual share turns out to be a fraction of that. The better story is who paid for his first business, a Velcro wallet company (27:20). Hint, it wasn't the rich dad. This week's unofficial sponsor is other people's money (32:54). Starting a rival golf league nobody asked for? Use a sovereign wealth fund's. Looking to spice up your marriage? Use other people's spouses. Which brings us to Culture Corner (34:17) and The Invite, with Olivia Wilde and Seth Rogen as a couple running on fumes who invite the loud upstairs neighbors, Penélope Cruz and Edward Norton, down for dinner. Kevin finds a plot hole the size of Jupiter (36:00) and producer Tanya weighs in on the moment Hawk turns out to be a Howard (40:52). ----more---- Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network

EP 36 | Brightline’s Debt Crisis, Syracuse Enrollment Slumps & the Clippers Report

Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt open with a con artist who thirst trapped women out of $1.3 million by faking his way onto the San Francisco 49ers (02:46), a bit that nearly separated producer Tanya from ten grand. Then it is on to Brightline Florida (07:06), the only privately run inner city passenger railroad in the country, with ridership up double digits, EBITDA finally positive, and roughly $5.5 billion of debt that has been amended 19 times. The trains keep running. The company is probably filing Chapter 11 anyway. Meanwhile the All In podcast is holding it up as proof Florida can build. The conversation turns north to Syracuse (15:24), Kevin's alma mater, which missed its enrollment target and borrowed $458 million for dorms after 25 years of treating full paying international students as a renewable resource. Octus built a database of 92 distressed private colleges. Syracuse was never on it. Until now. Update Corner brings the Wachtell report on Kawhi Leonard and the Clippers, with David Zupkas, legal analyst at Octus, joining to break down the penalty and the fraudulent transfer fight (35:35). The show closes on Coyote vs Acme (44:42), a legal comedy that a corporation nearly buried for a tax write off. The metaphor escaped containment. ----more---- Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt Guest: David Zubkis (Legal Analyst, Octus) Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network (00:05) - Cold open and compliance read (02:43) - Fake 49ers player scam (07:06) - Brightline Florida overview and success (08:12) - Why Brightline is heading to bankruptcy (10:31) - The four company debt structure explained (13:24) - Train travel in America (15:24) - Syracuse enrollment miss and dorm debt (18:20) - The distressed college database (20:53) - Endowments and systemic risk (22:25) - Why Syracuse first (35:35) - Wachtell report on the Clippers (37:39) - The Kawhi fraudulent transfer fight (44:42) - Culture Corner Coyote vs Acme (55:39) - Wrap and close

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EP 35 | The Kawhi Investigation, Mark Walter’s Sports-Insurance Web & Lioness’ Work-Life Problem

Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt start with the latest twist in the Kawhi Leonard investigation (03:17), digging into the reported endorsement deals, the NBA investigation into whether the Clippers used team sponsors to circumvent the salary cap, and the bankruptcy questions still hanging over Aspiration. They get into ESPN’s reporting that the NBA found no evidence Steve Ballmer funneled money to Kawhi through Clippers sponsors, and why the league’s pushback leaves plenty unresolved. Then it’s Mark Walter (18:22), the billionaire behind the Dodgers, the Lakers deal, Chelsea and a much more complicated web of life insurance, private credit and related-party investments. Jason and Kevin break down why affiliated transactions matter, how Delaware Life’s reported affiliated investments jumped dramatically, and why the broader relationship between Walter’s sports empire, insurers and Guggenheim has regulators and lenders paying attention. Before Culture Corner, the show picks up an extremely unofficial sponsor: Flock Cameras (32:25). Jason and Kevin take on the automated license-plate reader network, how searchable vehicle-location data can be used by police, the privacy and warrant questions around those searches, and Flock’s efforts to tighten controls after misuse concerns. Finally, Culture Corner heads back into the Taylor Sheridan universe with Lioness Season 3 (34:40), where Jason and Kevin debate Russia, CIA conference-room exposition and whether Zoe Saldaña’s Joe might love her job just a little too much ----more---- Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network (00:05) - Intro and cold open (02:22) - Kawhi Leonard investigation background (04:38) - Daktronics and a second endorsement deal (05:36) - ESPN reports no direct evidence (07:07) - From funneling money to failure to supervise (10:27) - The NBA counterpunches the leak (13:50) - The bankruptcy estate and clawback questions (18:21) - Mark Walter and the sports portfolio (18:51) - How captive life insurers work (22:26) - Affiliated transactions and the numbers (27:41) - Systemic risk in insurance and private credit (32:25) - Flock Cameras, the unofficial sponsor (34:41) - Culture Corner: Lioness Season 3 (45:02) - Wrap and close

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EP 34 | The First Mailbag, Bankruptcy of the Year & Hate Mail from a Federal Judge

The mailbag is officially open. Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt hand the episode over to listeners for the first-ever Octus Download mailbag, starting with Bankruptcy 101: (02:40) Does filing for bankruptcy mean a company is actually going out of business? (04:44) When billions of dollars of debt disappear, who actually loses that money? (07:15) What does “restructuring” really mean? And (10:41) why can’t a bankrupt company just sell everything it owns and pay everyone back? Then things get more personal. At (13:47) Jason and Kevin pick the bankruptcy cases they’ll never forget, (17:47) choose the one case they’d use to explain bankruptcy to someone who knows absolutely nothing about finance, and (24:11) tackle the favorite bankruptcy of the year, wrong answers only. At (27:53) the credit talk stops and Culture Mail opens, with TV takes, Emmy opinions, movie recommendations (35:03) Producer Tanya Mail puts the hosts on the spot about things cut from the show, rabbit holes they still want to go down and the takes they know will start an argument. And then, (37:29) Hate Mail arrives. At (38:07) U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Michael Kaplan joins the fun with a message for Kevin, a concern about his future source material and one very specific job offer. Finally, at (41:36) Jason and Kevin close the first mailbag and invite listeners to send the next round of questions, complaints and bad takes to podcasts@octus.com. ----more---- Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network (00:06) - Cold open and the mailbag is live (00:44) - Jason reads the compliance read (02:31) - Does bankruptcy mean going out of business (04:11) - Who loses the money when debt gets wiped (07:07) - What restructuring actually moves around (10:47) - Why not just sell everything and pay everyone (13:57) - The case Kevin will never forget (15:55) - The Shreveport riverboat casino buffet (17:53) - One case to teach someone finance (24:14) - Favorite bankruptcy of the year, wrong answers only (27:53) - Culture Mail opens (34:57) - Producer Mail with Tanya Hubbard (37:28) - Hate Mail and a letter from Judge Kaplan (42:33) - Wrap and close

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EP 33 | A Tale of Two Michaels, Kawhi's Frozen Trade & The Big Game Credit Story

Every retailer in America named Michael is either printing money or closing stores. Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt start with a tale of two Michaels (04:59). Michael Kors, the brand not the man, has quietly closed 139 stores in three years while sales dropped more than $860 million, caught in the collapsing middle where near luxury goes to die. Then the resurrection. Apollo bought Michaels, the craft chain, for $3.3 billion, watched the bonds trade at 34 cents, then refinanced the whole thing at par (11:33) after Joann and Party City conveniently burned down next door. There is a bankrupt balloon factory in here too. From there (19:15), the bankruptcy boys return to the Kawhi Leonard beat. A $28 million endorsement for a green bank that went bust, a creditor list nobody was supposed to read, a 14 year federal sentence, and a frozen trade to Toronto. There is also a scrapped ad campaign so strange it deserves its own segment (27:43). The show closes with a World Cup edition of Culture Corner (38:39). The final lands at MetLife on Sunday, and the American run was secretly a credit investing story. One text, one very large check, one Griffin (35:52). Producer Tanya road trips through AC refrigerant safety on the way out. ----more---- Hosted by Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network

EP 32 | Sleep Number Hits Snooze, A Camp Empire Files & The Devil Debt Collector

Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt open on Sleep Number, the smart mattress maker that dialed itself into Chapter 11 (02:07). The stock dropped 70 percent, the equity is underwater, and strategic partner Travis Kelce bought his stake on the open market months before the filing. Kevin floats a theory about who actually buys these beds. The numbers tell a sadder story (04:02), and there is a Canadian buyer nobody saw coming (05:35). From there (16:00), a summer camp empire. Simad Holdings ran 30 camps serving 20,000 kids a year, borrowed 195 million dollars from Israeli bond investors in December, and filed for Chapter 11 days after school let out. Jessica Steinhagen, Senior Director, Legal at Octus, joins (22:26) to explain the Jewish camp scene and answer the question every parent should ask. Whether solvency makes the list (25:02). Then the campers' embroidered trunks raise a genuine law school exam question (27:54). Kevin takes us to Caracas (30:16) for Rodrigo Herrera, the 75 year old debt collector who works in a full devil costume and drives a flame painted 55 Chevy. The unofficial sponsor read lands (35:47) before Culture Corner (38:28) takes on Jon Hamm and 600 million dollars nobody wants to hold on Your Friends and Neighbors. ----more---- Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt Guest: Jessica Steinhagen (Senior Director, Legal, Octus) Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network

EP 31 | Michael Gatto on Distressed Debt, Caesars Goes Private & The Tom Clancy Debate

Michael Gatto, partner at Silver Point Capital and adjunct professor at Columbia Business School and Fordham's Gabelli School of Business, joins at (02:12) to talk teaching, distressed investing, and how he went from a firm running $120 million to a $50 billion shop as its first non founder partner. He makes the case for hiring the gritty Fordham underdog over the Ivy pedigree, and explains why credit has always been a game for strivers. The timing is not subtle. BDCs are gating, First Brands had its disclosure statement denied with the US Trustee moving to convert to Chapter 7, and Jamie Dimon has been muttering about cockroaches. Gatto digs into what a credit analyst should actually learn from First Brands (19:43), what allocators should be asking direct lending managers (30:53), whether there is any fun left now that private credit went from the hottest asset class on the street to a beat down dog, and the O'Shea Center for Credit Analysis he founded at Fordham with Bob O'Shea. The conversation turns to Caesars Entertainment (38:35), the largest casino company in the US with 53 properties across 18 states, and Fertitta Entertainment taking it private in a $17.6 billion all cash deal at a 49 percent premium. Kyle Owusu, Director of Credit Research at Octus, walks through it (39:37), the $11.9 billion of debt Fertitta is inheriting, the $569 million in interest the company pays every quarter, the change of control put bondholders were watching, and the go shop window that is still open. The real story sits in the digital business, which more than doubled EBITDA last year while the Strip slipped about 5 percent, and in the enterprise value math that runs from the 2008 Apollo and TPG buyout through the brutal 2015 bankruptcy to today. Then Culture Corner (55:02) on Jack Ryan: Ghost War, the John Krasinski reboot that hit number one globally on Prime with Wendell Pierce and Michael Kelly back in the fold. The guys get into the TikTok theory that the whole thing was funded by Dubai tourism, the debate over the greatest Tom Clancy movie ever made with The Hunt for Red October as the benchmark, and why one host insists he was only resting his eyes. ----more---- Hosted by Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt Guest: Michael Gatto (Partner, Silver Point Capital) Guest: Kyle Owusu (Director of Credit Research, Octus) Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network Link to what we talked about: The Credit Investor's Handbook: Leveraged Loans, High Yield Bonds, and Distressed Debt (Wiley Finance) Links - amzn.to/4vne6Oz What Can a Credit Analyst Learn from the Rise and Fall of First Brands - https://bit.ly/3SehLzy What Questions Should Allocators Ask When Evaluating Direct Lending Managers - https://bit.ly/4enYRNO 00:00:05 Cold open and the fine print 00:02:12 Michael Gatto on teaching and Silver Point 00:19:43 What a credit analyst learns from First Brands 00:30:53 What allocators should ask direct lending managers 00:38:35 Caesars goes private 00:39:37 Kyle Owusu on the Fertitta deal 00:55:02 Culture Corner and Jack Ryan Ghost War 01:03:25 Wrap and close

• Transcript

EP 30 | Meme Stock M&A, Del Monte’s Peaches & Supreme Court Fight Club

Some weeks the news is weird. This week it is weird, litigious, and somehow involves 420,000 uprooted peach trees. Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt open with Ryan Cohen's unsolicited, non binding offer to acquire eBay for $125 a share in a cash and stoc

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EP 29 | Spirit's Final Flight, AMC Hangs On & The Parent Trap

Some companies die because the math was never going to work. Spirit, AMC, and fire truck pricing all make that case differently. Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt open with an emergency segment on Spirit Airlines (02:31), which ceased all operations on May

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EP 28 | BDC Trust Gap, Carl's Jr. Collapse & The Pitt

Private credit was supposed to be boring. This episode makes the case that boring just got complicated. Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt open with a cruise recap and the $80 million law firm hire that broke the internet before bringing in Mark Fischer,,

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EP 27 | Vail's Avalanche, 'We Listen But We Don't Judge' & Love Story's Crash Landing

Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt open with the shot heard round the NCAA Tournament (00:01:32)Braylon Mullins' 35 foot buzzer beater that completed a 19 point UConn comeback to stun No. 1 overall seed Duke 73 to 72 in the Elite Eight. Jason confesses to r

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EP 26 | Whiskey Barrels, FanDuel's Cable Collapse & Sentimental Value

Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt open with a quick catch-up (00:01:28) as Jason recounts a family ski trip to Vail that devolved into a flu-ridden disaster, complete with an urgent care visit and altitude-amplified misery. They flag a programming note: th

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EP 25 | Kent Collier SaaS Survival Guide & the JFK Jr. Love Story

Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt open with a discussion about JFK Jr.’s bar exam struggles, using it as a jumping-off point for a conversation about pressure, public expectations, and how high-profile figures are judged when they stumble. At (08:14), Kent

EP 24 | Fat Brands Bankruptcy, Minivan Comeback, and Eddie Bauer’s Cost of Aging

Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt open in Houston bankruptcy court (00:02:20) with Fat Brands’ Chapter 11 filing, breaking down how an aggressive whole business securitization spiraled into allegations of self-help, insider loans, and lender revolt (00:09:

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EP 23 | Saks Bankruptcy, Detroit’s EV Hangover & Bugonia vs. AI Slop

Season 2 is back Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt open with a quick life update, then the warm up turns into a real world bankrupt brand mishap when Jason gets bamboozled over the break by a distant bankruptcy friend, Party City, and suddenly a normal e

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EP 22 | Judge Michael B. Kaplan, Vegas Squeeze & the First Brands Conspiracy

In this season finale of The Octus Download, hosts Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt are joined by the Honorable Michael B. Kaplan, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge for the District of New Jersey, for a candid look at how bankruptcy actually works from inside the cou

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EP 21 | How Bankruptcy Really Works: Inside the System with Josh Sussberg

Jason Sanjana & Kevin Eckhardt open the episode from the Octus studio (00:00:06) and quickly bring in their guest, Josh Sussberg of Kirkland & Ellis (00:01:04). The conversation begins with Sussberg’s early ambition to become a sports journalist a

EP 20 | Sonder’s Chapter 7 Meltdown, Meta’s Scam Economy & The Pluribus Hive

Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt open with Sonder’s spectacular implosion, where a Chapter 7 filing and a broken Marriott integration turned hotel stays into evacuation drills. At (02:45), they unpack why guests were kicked out mid stay, how the deal fell

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EP 19 | MTV Ridiculousness, Starlink Takes Orbit & The Recession Hot Dog

Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt open with the bankruptcy of MTV’s Ridiculousness, the show that turned cultural decline into a business model. Thrill Intermediate LLC is in Chapter 11 after fourteen years and forty-six seasons, and Bloomberg’s sloppy red

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EP 18 | First Brands’ $2B Vanish, Publishers Clearing House Bankruptcy & Paul Thomas Anderson’s America

Jason Sanjana and Kevin Eckhardt open with the kind of week that makes “crisis” sound quaint. First Brands’ auto parts empire gets gutted by a refinancing gone sideways, two billion dollars missing, and more double-pledged inventory than a payday loan str

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