Razib Khan's Unsupervised Learning

Jonathan Beauchamp: Genoeconomics arise!

Today Razib talks to Jonathan P. Beauchamp, an Associate Professor of Economics at George Mason University, where his research focuses on applied microeconomics, behavioral economics, and the emerging field of "genoeconomics". He holds a Ph.D. in Economics from Harvard University and earned his undergraduate and master's degrees from Queen's University. In addition to his faculty position, he serves as a Senior Research Fellow at the Mercatus Center and an Associate Investigator at The Centre for Applied Genomics. Before fully transitioning into academia, Beauchamp gained professional experience as an economist at the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and as an associate at the management consulting firm McKinsey & Company. He is also a core researcher with the Social Science Genetic Association Consortium (SSGAC), contributing to large-scale genome-wide association studies on the genetic basis of economic behaviors, risk tolerance, and educational attainment. Razib and Beauchamp explore genoeconomics, the use of genetics to investigate education, income, behavior, and inequality. Beauchamp traces the field's evolution from unreliable claims about individual genes to large-scale studies showing that educational attainment, risk tolerance, and patience reflect thousands of tiny genetic effects. They discuss the promise and limits of polygenic prediction, how sibling comparisons help separate genetic effects from family background, and why larger, more diverse datasets and whole-genome sequencing could advance the field. The conversation turns to Beauchamp's research on how increasingly accurate genetic predictions could destabilize insurance markets when consumers know risks that insurers cannot use in pricing. They also examine his work linking the Western Church's marriage restrictions to weaker kinship networks and distinctive European social institutions, before discussing the professional pressures surrounding controversial research and new sibling-based estimates of heritability.

Philippe Lemoine: France of the riots and revolution

Philippe Lemoine is a researcher and writer specializing in the philosophy of science, statistical analysis, and epidemiology. He is a PhD candidate in philosophy at Cornell University. Previously, he was a Research Fellow at the Center for the Study of Partisanship and Ideology (CSPI). Lemoine is best known for his detailed, data-driven critiques of COVID-19 epidemiological modeling, lockdown policies, and Western foreign policy, which he primarily publishes on his blog, Nec Pluribus Impar (he now has a Substack). In addition to his independent research, he has contributed analytical essays on science and society to publications like Quillette. Razib and Lemoine discuss France's unrest, demographic change, and political paralysis, with Lemoine arguing that the school riots reflect a volatile mix of teenage behavior, social-media contagion, immigrant integration problems, and far-left agitation rather than a centrally organized conspiracy. They examine how viral footage exaggerates outsiders' perceptions of France's ethnic transformation, overlooking regional differences and widespread intermarriage. Turning to presidential politics, Lemoine argues that Marine Le Pen's prospects depend heavily on whether she faces Jean-Luc Mélenchon or the more competitive centrist Édouard Philippe. Beneath these immediate conflicts lies a deeper fiscal problem: weak growth, mounting debt, and generous pension commitments to an aging electorate make reform increasingly necessary but politically punishing. Lemoine anticipates that inflation and financial repression may prove more politically feasible than explicit spending cuts, while Razib emphasizes that the same tensions between retirees and workers increasingly confront the United States and other developed countries.

Ramez Naam: a solar future against AI-doomerism

Today, Ramez Naam returns 5 years after his original appearance on the podcast. In 2003, he wrote More Than Human: Embracing the Promise of Biological Enhancement. Naam is also the author of three science fiction books: Crux, Apex, and Nexus. In addition, has also written The Infinite Resource: The Power of Ideas on a Finite Planet. He also has an eponymous Substack, Ramez Naam. First, Razib and Naam discuss how technological change is turning once-futuristic possibilities into everyday realities, beginning with the falling costs of solar power, batteries, and electric vehicles. Naam argues that economics increasingly drives adoption, with Texas illustrating how competitive markets and easy permitting can accelerate clean energy even in a fossil-fuel stronghold. Razib probes the implications for transportation, oil demand, and the Gulf states, while Naam emphasizes that the transition will take decades and that heavy industry remains difficult to decarbonize. The conversation then shifts to AI, where Razib presses Naam on existential risk, industry concentration, and recursive self-improvement. Naam expects increasingly powerful systems but doubts an imminent intelligence explosion, pointing to diminishing returns, hardware constraints, and the difficulty of obtaining reliable real-world data. He sees concentrated corporate or government power as a greater threat than runaway superintelligence and favors broad access and competition.

Jerry Z. Muller: academia today, intellectual history in the past and AI in the future

Today Razib talks to Jerry Z. Muller, a historian and professor emeritus of history at the Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C., specializing in modern European intellectual history, capitalism, conservatism, and German and Jewish history. His work explores how ideas shape economic, political, and cultural life, bridging history, philosophy, and public policy. His books include Conservatism: An Anthology of Social and Political Thought From David Hume to the Present, The Mind and the Market: Capitalism in Modern European Thought, Capitalism and the Jews, The Tyranny of Metrics, and Professor of Apocalypse: The Many Lives of Jacob Taubes. Writing for both scholarly and general audiences, Muller examines subjects ranging from the moral arguments surrounding capitalism to the consequences of relying excessively on numerical measures to evaluate institutions and individuals. He has an eponymous Substack. The conversation revolves to a great extent on a recent post by Muller, Rethinking Faculty Control Scholarly Norms, the Vanderbilt Report, and the Limits of Academic Self-Government. Razib and Muller discuss the challenges facing universities, the resilience of American capitalism, and the effects of AI on intellectual life. Muller argues that scholarship depends on "organized skepticism," including peer review, replication, and engagement with different viewpoints, but that activism and ideological conformity weaken these practices in parts of academia and undermine public trust. They also tackle whether stronger university leadership can help address these problems while managing declining literacy and numeracy, shifting demographics, uncertain international enrollment, rising costs, and pressure to demonstrate results. Muller suggests that vocational training may increasingly separate from liberal arts education and research, raising questions about how universities can adapt while maintaining academic standards and intellectual diversity. He remains broadly optimistic about American capitalism, pointing to technological innovation, competition among states, immigration, and social supports. Both view AI as a powerful tool for skilled thinkers but a potential source of intellectual passivity for others, raising the question of how people can preserve their agency and sense of purpose as AI becomes part of everyday intellectual work.

Theo Jaffee: monitoring the "singularity"

Today Razib talks to Theo Jaffee, co-host of Monitoring the Situation, a show backed by Andreessen Horowitz that covers the rise of the "intelligence explosion" and AI. Jaffee is writer and podcaster who grew up in Boca Raton, Florida. He studied computer science and economics at the University of Florida. His writing on Theo's Substack explores artificial intelligence, technology, business, history, and philosophy. He has also contributed to Quillette and received an Emergent Ventures fellowship in 2024. The podcast covers AI's accelerating capabilities, broader societal impact, and safety risks. Jaffee talks about estimates of a 10% probability of human technological civilization collapsing within ten years, distinguishing between the disempowerment of humanity and the potential continuation of civilization under AI control. But, he notes, coordination, political intervention, and the logistical difficulty of automating physical infrastructure can mitigate that catastrophic risk. Progress remains broadly on track with AI 2027 expectations, despite there being no predicted labor disruptions and Chinese consolidation failing to materialize as forecast. Jaffee notes events like the Hugging Face incident and an apparent Millennium Prize problem solution heighten concerns surrounding alignment and control. Razib and Jaffee also discuss how critical uncertainties persist over how rapidly recursive self-improvement might yield superintelligence, whether mounting political backlash will establish viable safeguards or trigger heavy-handed stagnation, and how society must ultimately evaluate AI consciousness and moral status.

Scott Greer: Whitepill and Sunbelt

Today Razib talks to Scott Greer, an American conservative writer, author, and podcaster who focuses on nationalism, immigration, online political culture, and the transformation of the Republican Party. Formerly an editor and columnist at The Daily Caller, he now hosts the Highly Respected podcast and newsletter and contributes to The American Conservative. He is the author of No Campus for White Men (2017) and Whitepill: The Online Right and the Making of Trump's America (2026), a history of how paleoconservatism, libertarianism, the alt-right, and other internet subcultures helped shape Trump-era politics. The first half of the conversation focuses on Whitepill, as Greer outlines a narrative history of the rise of the New Right and its relationship to MAGA and Donald Trump over the last decade. The conversation goes back even further, to the origins of the dissident Right in the Ron Paul movement of the late aughts. Then they move to discussing a piece recently posted on Highly Respected, Sunbeltism Takes Over America–And The South. A native of Tennessee, Greer talks about the implicit conservatism of the ascendant Sunbelt culture, but its broader cultural and social influence, and its difference from earlier Southern subcultures fixated on the "Lost Cause" and rooted in an agrarian society.

Brian Chau: noticing with technology + investigative journalism

On this episode of Unsupervised Learning Razib talks to Brian Chau. A graduate of the University of Waterloo and former software engineer with a background in pure mathematics, today Chau is CEO of Effort.News. He was previously with The Alliance for the Future. Most of this conversation is around why it took so long to put together something like Effort.News, and what they've discovered (e.g., "The 19th-century Family Fortunes Funding Degrowth"). Chau also discusses their recruitment and capital needs as a seed-stage startup.

Kyle Orton: Muslims before Islam

Today Razib talks to Kyle Orton. Orton is a freelance researcher, writer, and editor specializing in security and foreign policy, with a particular focus on the Middle East, the Syrian war, regional geopolitics, and terrorist movements including the Islamic State (ISIS), Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC), and the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK). His work also ranges widely across history, including early Christianity, Islam and its relationship with the West, intelligence and espionage, the Reformation, the English Civil War, Tsarist Russia and the Soviet Union, the First World War, Communism and the Cold War, and pre-Revolutionary Iran. Orton writes the newsletter It Can Always Get Worse, where he covers contemporary security issues alongside history, religion, intelligence, books, and occasional film reviews. His writing has appeared in publications including The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, UnHerd, Newsweek, The Independent, The New Arab, and International Business Times. Orton and Razib's conversation begins with his post, The Sojourn of Arculf: An Eyewitness to "Early Islamic" Jerusalem - A Frankish bishop sheds some light on a historical dark age. Their discussion continues with probing the possibility that Islam as we know it truly did not exist any recognizable form before the 690s AD, and that the early "Saracens" as their Christian enemies referred to them were in fact a schismatic group of monotheists whose beliefs were adjacent to that of the Jews. Orton also discusses the role of Muhammad, or rather, the lack of the role of Muhammad, in the early years of the Islamic Caliphate. They also explore the possibility that later commentators largely attributed the negative reputation of Islam's first dynastic Caliphate, the Umayyads, to the reality that they would not recognize them as Muslims. Finally, Orton talks about the reality that some of the layers of text within the Koran seem far older than the time of Muhammad, perhaps by a century or so.

Nikolai Yakovenko: the wages of the Hugging Face hack

Nikolai Yakovenko is back on the podcast because of the Hugging Face hack. Yakovenko is a former professional poker player, and was a research scientist at Google, Twitter and Nvidia. With a decade in computer science, Yakovenko has been at the forefront of the large-language-model revolution that has driven to prominence companies like OpenAI, Anthropic, and DeepMind, and an ecosystem that has birthed hundreds of smaller startups. He is also the founder of DeepNewz, an AI-driven news startup. His latest startup is HuggingNews. Razib and Yakovenko talk about the implications of OpenAI's inadvertent hack of Hugging Face, and whether he has been too sanguine about the possibility of AI-apocalypse. Though Yakovenko hasn't gone full doomer, he admits that this sort of behavior by AI agents is alarming. That being said, he cautions we need to keep perspective. They also discuss predictions of the coming obsolescence of software engineers…Yakovenko notes that in some ways Dario Amodei was correct to predict the end of software engineering as a profession: very few write code unaided by LLMs today. In a few years, many professions, especially in tech, have transformed, but warnings of mass unemployment have not materialized.

Werner Zagrebbi: Adventures in Forbidden Data

Collin Hogue-Spears: How AI Works in China

Today, Razib talks to Collin Hogue-Spears, a cybersecurity and artificial intelligence governance expert with more than 20 years of experience in technology, product management, federal compliance and software security. Hogue-Spears is an independent researcher and the author of From Lab to Life: How AI Works in China. His analysis has appeared in publications including The Wall Street Journal and Politico. Razib and Hogue-Spears first talk abut China's rapid AI development, driven by provincial initiatives and significant investments in infrastructure. Hogue-Spears emphasizes China's focus on practical AI applications, contrasting it with the U.S.'s emphasis on AGI. He predicts China's dominance in AI, particularly in embodied AI, and warns of the potential global impact if China surpasses the U.S. in AI development. The conversation highlights the striking differences between the U.S. and Chinese technological ecosystems.

Daniel Di Martino: a Latino immigrant on immigration (and Venezuela)

On this episode, Razib talks to Daniel Di Martino, a Venezuelan-born economist, speaker, and fellow at the Manhattan Institute, where his research centers on immigration policy, including selection, assimilation, and high-skilled migration. Born in 1999 and raised in Venezuela, he witnessed firsthand the impacts of socialism, including hyperinflation and shortages, which prompted him to immigrate to the United States in 2016. He earned a BA in Quantitative Economics from Indiana University and a PhD in Economics from Columbia University. He writes for publications such as City Journal, and USA Today, and serves on the board of advisors for Young America's Foundation while sitting on New Jersey's advisory committee to the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights. First, they talk about the economic and social impact of socialism in Venezuela under Hugo Chavez and Nicolas Maduro. Di Martino describes the country's decline, including hyperinflation, shortages, and corruption, leading to a significant emigration of 30% of the population. Di Martino also discusses the potential for Venezuela's freedom under the Trump administration and his ongoing work on immigration and economic policy. He advocates for a selective, high-skilled immigration policy in the U.S., emphasizing its economic benefits and the need for a moral approach to enforcement. They discuss Di Martino's report, The Fiscal Impact of Immigration, and how Indians in America fit into that picture more precisely.

Richard Hanania and Steve Sailer: noticing the kakistocracy

On this episode of Unsupervised Learning we have a double-feature with Richard Hanania and Steve Sailer. Hanania holds a law degree from the University of Chicago and a PhD in political science from UCLA, and was previously a research fellow at Columbia University's Saltzman Institute of War and Peace Studies. He founded the Center for the Study of Partisanship and Ideology (CSPI) and writes the popular Substack newsletter Richard Hanania's Newsletter, where he covers politics, foreign policy, and social science from a heterodox, broadly libertarian-leaning perspective; his book The Origins of Woke argued that civil rights law, rather than culture alone, drives modern identity politics. His latest book is Kakistocracy: Why Populism Ends in Disaster. Steve Sailer is an American journalist and blogger, born in 1958 in Los Angeles, who worked in market research before turning to full-time writing in the 1990s, contributing to National Review, The American Conservative, Taki's Magazine, and the webzine VDARE, as well as his long-running personal blog. He is best known for coining the term "human biodiversity" (HBD) and for pioneering a data-heavy style of commentary on race, immigration, IQ, crime, and demographics. This approach made him persona non grata in mainstream outlets. Long relegated to the fringes and often labeled a race-science promoter by critics, he published an anthology, Noticing, in 2024. In the first hour, Razib and Hanania discuss his career, his use of social media, and his new book. They delve into the rise of populism, defining it as a movement that divides society into righteous masses and corrupt elites. Hanania argues that populism often leads to poor economic performance and authoritarianism. They also touch on the impact of AI on the legal profession, the role of social media in amplifying fringe views, and the challenges of immigration and institutional trust. Hanania expresses a preference for a merit-based immigration system and criticizes the identitarian deference on both the left and right. In the second hour, Razib and Sailer discuss the demographic and economic changes in Southern California, highlighting the impact of Latino immigration and the rise of new immigrant groups from the former Soviet Union. They recount the environmental movement's role in halting development in Beverly Hills and the potential of robot taxis to transform urban commuting. Sailer reflects on the decline of Chicago's Fortune 500 companies and the challenges faced by cities built on water transport. They also discuss the evolution of race and IQ debates and the importance of affirmative action in diverse fields. Likely to the surprise of many Sailer defends affirmative action for black Americans. He also expresses optimism for the future, despite the current political climate.

Jason Scharf: Austin's present and future as Texas' tech hub

Today Razib talks to Jason Scharf, a biotech investor and podcaster. A native of San Diego, Scharf is an angel investor and startup advisor focused on the intersection of biology, technology, and business, particularly within TechBio and digital health. He has leadership experience in strategy and market intelligence at major companies like Illumina and Amgen. Scharf now targets investments in the bio-innovation tech stack and care delivery transformation. Additionally, as the host of the Austin Next podcast, he is an advocate for regional innovation ecosystems. Scharf promotes the growth of the Texas Triangle as a premier global hub for biotechnology and frontier tech. Razib and Scharf discuss the growth and appeal of Austin, Texas, highlighting its booming tech scene and business environment. Scharf discusses why he moved from San Diego during the COVID-19 pandemic. They compare Austin's population growth to other major cities, noting Austin's rapid expansion from 400,000 in 1990 to over a million in 2020. They also talk about the impact of autonomous vehicles, the potential for high-speed rail, and the importance of infrastructure and talent in sustaining Austin's future growth. The conversation touches on the broader Texas Triangle and its economic significance to the American economy today and in the future. They highlight the libertarian and business-friendly environment in Texas, allowing for significant developments like Tesla's Gigafactory (the world's second-largest building), and the planned Terfab. Razib compares Austin and San Antonio, noting the former's rapid growth and the challenges it faces, such as infrastructure and housing. They also touch on the cultural and economic dynamics in Texas, emphasizing the importance of storytelling and narrative in shaping the state's future.

Destiny (Steven Bonnell II): a liberal in the age of radical progressives and MAGA

On this episode, Razib talks to streamer and political commentator Destiny (Steven Bonnell II). Destiny first gained prominence in the late 2000s as a professional player and content creator in the video game StarCraft II. Over time, he transitioned from gaming into politics, philosophy, culture, and current events, becoming one of the most influential figures in online debate culture. Known for his fast-paced argumentative style, willingness to engage opponents across the ideological spectrum, and extensive live discussions with politicians, journalists, academics, and fellow creators, Destiny has built a large audience on streaming and video platforms. His content focuses on liberal politics, public policy, social issues, and media criticism, and he has played a notable role in shaping the modern ecosystem of online political commentary and debate. Razib Khan interviews Destiny about his current position on the center-left, with the rise of the far left and the ascendancy of MAGA. Destiny criticizes Trump's foreign policy as irresponsible and incoherent, citing examples like the Venezuela invasion and the Iran situation. He also discusses the challenges of defining political labels, the impact of social media on political discourse, and the need for better messaging from the Democratic Party. He emphasizes the importance of nuanced discussions on issues like transgender rights and foreign policy. Razib and Destiny touch on cultural war issues, particularly the left's obsession with racial identity and the right's response. They debate the impact of DEI policies versus the DOJ's actions under Trump. Destiny argues that conservatives' disengagement from cultural institutions led to their current dominance by the left. They also discuss the media's role in shaping public perception and the decline of ideological debate due to social media echo chambers. The conversation touches on the MAGA movement's reliance on Trump and the lack of genuine engagement in modern political discourse.

Joseph Robertson: bringing Reform UK to the top of British politics

The UK is now in political turmoil, as Keir Starmer has announced his resignation. The next British election is still three years away, but it is hotly anticipated because Labour is going to faceoff against three parties of the Right: the Tories (also known as the Conservaties), Reform UK and Restore Britain. Reform, led by Nigel Farage and stocked with defections from the Tories, has a good chance to win in 2029. On today's episode, Razib talks to Joseph Robertson about the British politican scene. Robertson is Director at Touchpoint Strategy and CPAC Britain, wrote for Epoch Times and has been a long-time conservative political consultant in the UK. Currently, he is aligned with Reform UK. Razib and Robertson discuss the political and economic challenges facing the UK, particularly since the 2019 election and Brexit. Robertson highlights the shift in political allegiances, with the working class moving from Labour to the Tories, and the subsequent rise of Nigel Farage's Reform UK party. They address issues like economic stagnation, high energy costs, and the impact of net-zero policies. Robertson criticizes the inherited socialist Fabian agenda of Labour and the lack of integration among new immigrants. They also touch on the rise of radical Islam and the need for stronger national identity and sovereignty. The conversation concludes with the announcement of CPAC UK, aiming to unite conservative movements globally.

Zineb Riboua: Rising Tides of the Third World

Today on Unsupervised Learning Razib talks to Zineb Riboua, a research fellow and program manager of Hudson Institute's Center for Peace and Security in the Middle East. She specializes in Chinese and Russian involvement in the Middle East, the Sahel, and North Africa, great power competition in the region, and Israeli-Arab relations. Riboua's pieces and commentary have appeared in the Wall Street Journal, Foreign Policy, the National Interest, the Jerusalem Post and Tablet among other outlets. She holds a master's of public policy from the McCourt School of Public Policy at Georgetown University. She did her undergraduate studies in France, where she attended French preparatory classes and HEC Paris' Grande Ecole program. Her Substack is Beyond the Ideological. Razib and Zineb Riboua discuss the concept of Third Worldism (following up on an earlier podcast), its historical context, and its contemporary relevance. Riboua explains that Third Worldism positions the decolonizing world as a historical actor seeking revenge and redistribution from the West, emphasizing the West's role in global South underdevelopment. They explore its manifestations in politics, particularly in the US and Europe, and its influence on foreign policy, highlighting the role of Israel as a central issue. Riboua also touches on the economic and political challenges faced by Iran and the Middle East, and the evolving dynamics of Islam in global politics.

Brianna Wu: the case for liberalism

On this episode of Unsupervised Learning Razib talks to Brianna Wu. Wu is an American video game developer, programmer, and political activist best known as the co-founder and CEO of the independent game studio Giant Spacekat. Raised in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, she attended the University of Mississippi to study journalism and political science but withdrew in 2001 without earning a degree in order to pursue early entrepreneurial ventures. After establishing herself in the tech industry and leading the development of the 2014 indie game Revolution 60, Wu became a prominent advocate for marginalized groups in gaming, a role that expanded significantly after she was targeted during the Gamergate harassment campaign. She later transitioned into political organizing, running for the U.S. House of Representatives in Massachusetts as a Democrat in 2018 and 2020, and co-founding Rebellion PAC to support progressive political initiatives. In the last few years Wu has been pivoting more toward the center, expressing concerns about the power of the anti-Israel faction on the Left. Razib and Wu discuss their political differences, he, being on the political Right his whole adult life, and, Wu, a partisan of the Left. Wu makes the affirmative case for a liberal Left vision of American politics, a welfare state without express support for socialism. They also discuss the excesses of both the woke Left and the MAGA Right, and Wu challenges Razib on the actions of state-level Republicans. She argues that for many Americans the Right presents no option, because it does not welcome many identity categories as the Left does.

Dan Hess: the end of Asians and humanity going to the retirement home

On this episode of Unsupervised Learning Razib has a wide-ranging conversation, again, with Dan Hess, the man behind the More Births account on social media. An engineer with a large family in the DC area, Hess' essays on topics like Israelis' high birth rate have gained the attention of X. He has an account that has come from a few hundred followers to more than 45,000 in less than 4 years. His tweets have been boosted by Elon. Today Razib and Hess start the conversation talking about East Asia, and its massive fertility crisis. Hess makes the case against urban density, observing how low fertility is in some of these Asian cities in particular. Razib also brings up economic and cultural creativity, as he and Hess ruminate on the consequences of reduced dynamism due to an aging population. Hess also argues that we cannot rely on evolution to fix our demographic imbalances; the source nations of immigrants are experiencing demographic collapse as well.

Leonidas-Romanos Davranoglou: the last Hellenes and the children of the Yamnaya

On this episode of Unsupervised Learning Razib talks to geneticist Leonidas-Romanos Davranoglou about two papers, Ancient DNA evidence for the history of the Albanians and Uniparental analysis of Deep Maniot Greeks reveals genetic continuity from the pre-Medieval era. He is an entomologist and evolutionary biologist specializing in insect morphology, biomechanics, bioacoustics, systematics, and taxonomy. Born in Greece, Davranoglou earned a B.Sc. (Hons) in Zoology from Imperial College London (2012–2015) before completing a DPhil (2015–2020) in insect morphology and biomechanics at the University of Oxford under supervisors Graham Taylor and Beth Mortimer. He is currently a Leverhulme Trust Early Career Fellow at the Oxford University Museum of Natural History (with support from the John Fell OUP Fund), where he investigates the evolutionary origins of sound production in hemipteran insects. He also serves as Curator of Hemiptera and a senior researcher at the Steinhardt Museum of Natural History in Tel Aviv. Over the course of the episode Razib and Davranoglou cover the intersection of history, archaeology and genetics. Who are the Greeks of the Mani peninsula, south of Sparta? Are they particularly "genetically pure" compared to other Greeks, and what is their connection to the ancient Greeks? How do Albanians differ from other Balkan populations and what are their deep origins? The podcast explores genetic results that demystify the demographic history of the southern Balkans, and two of the deeply indigenous peoples to the region.