BusinessMarketingNon-Profit

Grow Your Camp

Mark P. Fisher & Carl Lefever

Welcome to the Grow Your Camp Podcast: 'Cause You Can't Minister to Empty Beds

Where we share stories and systems to help camps grow.

Hosts:

Mark P. Fisher, of Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, of Improve & Grow

Overview:

Most camp directors didn't sign up to be marketers. They signed up because they know what happens to a kid who spends a week away from everything — and they wanted to be part of it. But empty beds are a real problem, and figuring out how to fill them, fund the mission, and still lead well is work nobody really prepared you for.

The Grow Your Camp Podcast exists for that director. Every episode opens with one tactic you can use this week — then goes deeper with a real camp leader who's already solved the problem you're sitting with. Real numbers. Real stories. The systems behind the growth.

This is what it sounds like when the mission gets to grow.

Key Themes:

Filling the Calendar: Strategies and real-world examples of how retreat and camp leaders increase bookings and reduce seasonal gaps. Topics might include: lead generation systems, improving inquiry response times, pricing strategy, market positioning, capacity management, and off-season marketing approaches.
Marketing that Feels Like Ministry: How faith-driven leaders approach marketing as an extension of their mission rather than a distraction from it. Topics might include: values-based storytelling, ethical persuasion, branding that builds trust, and aligning marketing messages.
Digital Growth Systems: Modern tools and digital marketing tactics that consistently drive visibility, inquiries, and revenue for retreats and camps. Topics might include: websites that convert, CRM and automation, SEO and Google Ads, social media advertising, online reviews, and emerging technologies like AI.
Stories of Growth: Candid conversations with leaders about their challenges, breakthroughs, and the turning points that sparked momentum. Topics might include: turning around a struggling retreat season, launching new programs, rebuilding after crisis, or scaling operations while staying mission-aligned.
Leading for Growth: How leadership mindset, team culture, and operational systems create the foundation for sustainable growth. Topics might include: team alignment, delegation, budgeting and stewardship, guest experience excellence, and building systems that support long-term ministry impact.

Episodes are typically 30-45 minutes in length, content is fun, engaging and practical. We bring on reputable guests that work in or on camp and always include a quick camp marketing tip at the top of each episode.

Have a specific question you'd like us to cover? Click here to submit a question or episode idea to our team.

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23 episodes
Avg 49 min
English

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S1 · E23
Friday · 1 hr 2 min
EP 23 | Growth Takes a Plan: What to Do When Your Camp Stops Growing
Growth had been strong at Bongiorno Conference Center coming out of COVID, but by 2025 the momentum was beginning to stall. For Executive Director Carl Redding, the challenge wasn’t simply generating more business. It was figuring out what needed to change, and being willing to act on it. Rather than trying to solve everything internally, Bongiorno partnered with an outside digital marketing agency to take a fresh look at its growth opportunities. That process helped the team see both the potential ahead and the gaps that needed attention. From marketing and lead generation to inquiry follow-up and internal systems, Bongiorno began building a more intentional approach to growth. The result has been a stronger pipeline, more inquiries and bookings, and greater clarity about where the organization can go next. Carl also shares the leadership work behind that progress: addressing unhealthy staff culture, inviting trusted leaders into important decisions, empowering team members to own their areas, and knowing when outside expertise can help you see something differently. As new opportunities emerge, Bongiorno is now thinking about the next constraints to growth, including staffing, meeting space, capacity, and long-term facility planning. Carl Lefever’s Quick Camp Marketing Tip focuses on another important part of sustainable growth: keeping the guest groups you already have through proactive retreat coordination and a consistent rebooking process. Keywords camp growth, camp marketing, retreat center marketing, Bongiorno Conference Center, digital marketing, retreat bookings, lead generation, guest group retention, camp leadership, retreat coordination, organizational growth, Christian camping Sound Bites “Growth doesn’t simply happen because you want it.” “You have to communicate, communicate, overcommunicate.” “I want 100% retainment. I know it’s crazy to think like that, but why not?” “When God changes a life, it’s forever and it’s eternal.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest Carl Redding, Bongiorno Conference Center Resources Retreat Coordination Process Article> Church Event Planning Checklist> Free Camp Growth Planner App > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: GBZT62DX8P3EDCBP
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S1 · E22
September 11 · 54 min
EP 22 | What Happens When Your Camp Systems Stop Getting in the Way?
Camp technology often forces camps to change the way they work to fit the software. The team behind The One App took the opposite approach: learn how camps actually operate, then build technology around them. Michael John Stanley (MJ), Alan Brown, and Lindy Pinkerton share how that process began with visits to 10 camps and expanded into conversations with roughly 60 camps, plus real-world beta testing. What emerged was a consistent problem: camps were stitching together registration systems, spreadsheets, calendars, contracts, emails, whiteboards, and staff knowledge just to keep operations moving. Their response centers on what Lindy calls the Five C’s: contracts, calendars, communications, CRM, and coordinating. The conversation gets practical about guest-group registration, knowing who is actually on property, communicating between departments, coordinating meals and facilities, and giving staff access to the information they need without burying them in another complicated system. Mark’s quick marketing tip also tackles WIIFM—“What’s In It For Me?”—and why camp marketing should focus less on what your camp has and more on what those features make possible for campers, parents, churches, and retreat groups. Keywords camp technology, camp management software, camp operations, camp registration, guest group registration, camp CRM, camp communication, operational efficiency, camp management systems, retreat center software, sustainable camp growth, The One App Sound Bites “Camping found me.” — MJ “You’re basically running a city at a camp.” — Alan Brown “Everything is fragmented.” — Lindy Pinkerton “Get staff out from behind the desk and out doing mission.” — Alan Brown Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guests Michael John Stanley (MJ), The One App Alan Brown, The One App Lindy Pinkerton, The One App Resources The One App — Learn more or schedule a demo. If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: NKEL9IWUMNG2LTC0
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S1 · E21
August 28 · 1 hr 7 min
EP 21 | Is Fear Keeping Your Camp From Growing?
Empty beds aren’t free. An unused cabin, an open retreat weekend, or a phone that isn’t ringing represents the capacity your camp built, but isn’t using. Mark and Carl challenge one of the biggest barriers to camp growth: treating marketing primarily as a cost to control instead of an investment expected to produce a measurable return. The issue isn’t spending more for the sake of spending. It’s learning to test intelligently, track results, invest more in what works, and stop funding what doesn’t. Mark recommends thinking about marketing investment in relation to the revenue you want to achieve, using 10–12% of target gross revenue as a starting benchmark. They also unpack why fixed budgets can work against growth, why experienced marketing leadership matters, and why most camps need an “air traffic controller” coordinating specialists rather than expecting one marketing employee to do everything. Carl’s Quick Camp Marketing Tip makes measurement simple: ask every new inquiry, “How did you hear about us?” Record the answer consistently and use those patterns to make better decisions about where your next marketing dollar should go. Keywords camp marketing, camp growth, marketing investment, marketing ROI, camp marketing budget, camp enrollment, retreat bookings, lead tracking, camp capacity, marketing strategy, nonprofit growth, camp leadership Sound Bites “Empty beds aren’t free.” “Good leadership doesn’t just protect resources. It puts them to work.” “Test. Keep track. See what works. See what doesn’t.” “What are we afraid of?” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: CTICEW7Z3GYJB3XU
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S1 · E20
August 21 · 54 min
EP 20 | How to Get Your Camp on the First Page of Google
More than half of a typical camp website’s traffic can come from Google searches, and for some camps, that number reaches 80% or more. That makes one question critical: When parents and retreat planners search for what you offer, can they actually find you? Senior SEO Specialist Scott Rehnberg of Improve & Grow explains camp SEO without the technical overload. He breaks down how Google understands your website, why dedicated pages for priority audiences matter, how your Google Business Profile affects visibility, and what camps can do to influence recommendations from ChatGPT and other AI search tools. Scott also shares what progress can look like over 30 days, 90 days, and six months, and why impressions and clicks only matter if they ultimately lead to inquiries, bookings, and registrations. Carl’s Quick Camp Marketing Tip: “Google Your Camp Like a Guest Would” gives you an immediate visibility check. Open an incognito browser and search your camp’s name, “summer camps near me,” and “Christian retreat centers near me.” Then try similar searches in ChatGPT. Look at who appears, what information search engines are using, and where your camp’s online presence needs work. Keywords camp SEO, summer camp marketing, Google search, search engine optimization, ChatGPT search, AI search, Google Business Profile, organic traffic, retreat center marketing, camp registrations, Google Search Console, camp website Sound Bites “It's not a trick.” — Scott Rehnberg (19:45) “If people can understand it, Google's more likely to understand it.” — Scott Rehnberg (20:26) “Sometimes the off-site things you do can give a lot of credibility to your website.” — Scott Rehnberg (27:22) “Your SEO is the work you're putting into your house to make it more valuable.” — Scott Rehnberg (46:59) Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest Scott Rehnberg, Improve & Grow Chapters 00:00 Why SEO Matters for Camps 02:09 Quick Camp Marketing Tip: Google Your Camp Like a Guest Would 15:51 Scott’s Camp Story 19:07 SEO, Explained Simply 24:28 Getting Your Camp Recommended by ChatGPT and AI 30:29 Why Camps Don’t Show Up in Search 35:33 Common SEO Problems for Camp and Retreat Websites 40:19 What Actually Moves the Needle With SEO 46:00 How Long Does SEO Take? 50:10 Measuring Impressions, Clicks, and Conversions 55:32 Three SEO Actions Camps Can Take This Week 57:38 Closing: Building Your Camp’s Growth Plan If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: VO8ZUDXYA1ZUJIAD
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S1 · E19
July 31 · 55 min
EP 19 | The Hidden Reason Camp Websites Lose Registrations
Most camp websites unintentionally make it harder for visitors to take the next step. A homepage has to introduce your ministry, answer questions, and guide visitors in multiple directions. A landing page has one job: help the right visitor take one specific action. Oscar Quesada, CEO of Lifedge Marketing, explains why focused landing pages consistently outperform general website pages for camp registrations, retreat bookings, and facility rentals. He shares the framework his team uses to build pages that remove confusion, build trust, and improve conversions. You'll learn what separates a landing page from a standard website page, the biggest mistakes camps make, and the key elements every high-converting page should include, including clear messaging, testimonials, FAQs, pricing, compelling calls to action, and social proof. Oscar also shares a real-world example where a targeted landing page and modest Google Ads campaign generated more than $100,000 in retreat bookings. Along with the incredible insights from Oscar, Mark encourages camp leaders to price confidently as costs increase while rewarding loyal families with meaningful early-bird incentives. Registering campers before they leave camp, or shortly afterward, can improve retention, strengthen cash flow, and help families commit before they begin comparing other camps. As Mark reminds listeners, "The best time to sell next summer is this summer." Keywords landing pages, camp websites, camp marketing, retreat center marketing, website conversions, Google Ads, Christian camps, camp registration, facility rentals, SEO, website optimization, Lifedge Marketing Sound Bites "The best time to sell next summer is this summer." "The right message, to the right audience, at the right time." "People need to understand what you do in the first 10 seconds." "Marketing is a bunch of experiments." Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest Oscar Quesada, Lifedge Marketing Resources Lifedge Marketing Website > Landing Page Best Practices Guide > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: WSSYZ6CNOPQMOVKN
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S1 · E18
July 24 · 59 min
EP 18 | The Missing Sales System Behind Camp Growth
Most camps assume they need more inquiries to grow their guest group business, but many already have enough opportunities—they simply need a better system for converting them. Sustainable growth comes from responding quickly, building trust throughout the sales process, and creating consistent follow-up that helps prospective groups confidently choose your camp. Carl opens the episode with a practical marketing tip reminding camp leaders that every inquiry has an expiration date. He explains why responding within one business day, following up consistently, scheduling clear next steps, and tracking every opportunity in a CRM dramatically increases the likelihood of turning inquiries into bookings. As Carl says, marketing creates opportunities, but sales turns those opportunities into ministry and revenue. Mark is joined by Lindy Pinkerton and Heather Trail from Inspiring Growth to discuss how virtual sales support is helping camps strengthen their guest group sales process without adding the cost and complexity of expanding their internal staff. They share practical insights on qualifying leads, building stronger relationships with prospective groups, simplifying contracts, improving communication, and creating systems that ensure every inquiry receives the attention it deserves. Throughout the conversation, they explain how becoming an extension of a camp's team—not simply an outside vendor—helps camps increase bookings, improve rebooking rates, and build sustainable long-term growth through better sales systems. Keywords virtual sales, guest group sales, camp CRM, camp marketing, Christian camps, retreat center marketing, follow-up systems, lead conversion, guest group bookings, sales process, HubSpot CRM, camp growth Sound Bites "The fortune is in the follow-up." "We don't use 'they.' We say 'we.' We are your people." “If you follow up more than the other person and better than the other person you can often win them.” "Marketing creates opportunities. Sales turns those opportunities into ministry and revenue." “What camp can do in the life of a child and adult can change a family, can change a generation.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guests Lindy Pinkerton, Virtual Sales at Inspiring Growth Heather Trail, Virtual Sales at Inspiring Growth Resources Talk with Inspiring Growth About Virtual Sales If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: IDLLDBWXQ4LNTQFY
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S1 · E17
July 17 · 1 hr 7 min
EP 17 | Your Camp Isn't Full (Even If You Think It Is)
Most camps assume they need more marketing to grow. Mark Fisher argues many actually have a capacity problem hiding in plain sight. Before diving into the main conversation, Mark shares a practical camp marketing tip: share benefits, not just features. Instead of simply promoting climbing walls, zip lines, or beautiful facilities, camps should tell stories that demonstrate real transformation. Parents and retreat planners don't just want information, they want evidence that camp changes lives. By documenting one authentic story each week, camps can create more compelling marketing that connects emotionally with future guests. The main conversation introduces Capacity Yield Management, a practical approach to helping camps generate more revenue, serve more guests, and strengthen long-term sustainability by making better use of the facilities they already have. Through real-world examples, Mark and Carl explain why "full" often isn't actually full, how outdated booking practices quietly cost camps thousands of dollars, and why better stewardship of existing resources can unlock significant growth. You'll learn how to evaluate true capacity, manage reservation holds, determine when exclusive use makes financial sense, balance multiple guest groups, identify hidden facility constraints, and build the operational systems that maximize both ministry impact and financial health. Keywords capacity yield management, camp occupancy, camp revenue, retreat center management, Christian camps, camp marketing, storytelling marketing, guest group bookings, exclusive use, camp operations, camp leadership, camp stewardship Sound Bites “I've seen camps over and over increase monthly income by 30 % just by maximizing their occupancy.” “Combine, cancel, create, and cram. The four C's of yield management.” “Sometimes you have to cancel or prune, in order to have more growth.” “Maybe curiosity is one of the fastest paths back to joy.” “People don't just want more information. They want evidence. Evidence through story that your camp is changing lives.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve &Grow Guest Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Resources The Spike of Success, by Mark P. Fisher If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: IDLLDBWXQ4LNTQFY
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S1 · E16
July 11 · 51 min
EP 16 | What Happens When Referrals Aren't Enough?
Many camps dream of growing their ministry, but sustainable growth rarely comes from a single campaign or one great season. It happens through consistent leadership, clear messaging, intentional systems, and a willingness to confront the obstacles holding a camp back. Mark opens the episode with a practical marketing tip on selling the problem before the program, explaining why camps should lead with the challenges their guests already feel, not simply the name or date of an event. When people recognize a problem they're trying to solve, they're far more likely to engage with your camp's solution. Dave Crouse, Executive Director of Angeles Crest Christian Camp, shares the remarkable story of taking over a camp that couldn't pay its electric bill and transforming it into a thriving ministry serving nearly 7,000 guests each year. Dave discusses the leadership decisions that changed the trajectory of the camp, including clarifying the camp's brand, improving its digital presence, embracing data-driven decision making, and investing consistently in both facilities and people. He also explains how sustained growth strengthened donor confidence, funded major capital improvements, and positioned the camp to pursue even bigger ministry opportunities, including a bold vision to serve 10,000 guests annually. Throughout the conversation, Dave reminds camp leaders that growth begins by honestly identifying the one or two obstacles preventing your camp from moving forward and intentionally building systems to overcome them. Keywords camp leadership, camp marketing, Christian camps, retreat center marketing, nonprofit marketing, camp growth, branding, digital marketing, donor development, guest group marketing, executive director, stewardship Sound Bites "My first day on the job, I was told that we were financially in the hole and that we didn't have enough money to pay the electric bill” "Sell the problem before the program" "I had to come to that realization what I had in the past was not gonna happen and and lead to growth now." "When you start to get that consistent growth, a lot of other things come with it." Hosts Mark P. Fisher https://go.inspiringgrowth.biz/ Carl Lefever https://improveandgrow.com/industries/camp-marketing/ Guest Dave Crouse Executive Director, Angeles Crest Christian Camp Resources Angeles Crest Christian Camp https://angelescrest.com The Paine Protocol by Mark P. Fisher Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: MUOXNEDI4J6OKCXV
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S1 · E15
July 3 · 31 min
EP 15 | How Camps Can Build a Referral System That Actually Works
Word-of-mouth has always been one of the strongest drivers of camp growth, but for many camps, it's still an informal process that's impossible to measure or improve. Peter Elbaum, owner of Camp Tree and Operations Director at Greystone Camp, shares how camps can turn referrals into a repeatable growth system. Drawing from both his camp leadership experience and software engineering background, Peter explains why great systems free camp staff to focus on relationships instead of repetitive administrative work. Mark and Carl also discuss why referrals consistently outperform many other marketing channels, how camps can reward families and staff without creating unnecessary complexity, and why measuring referral performance is essential for long-term growth. Peter shares practical examples from more than 100 camps using Camp Tree, including how one camp achieved a 15x return on investment by replacing guesswork with measurable referral tracking. Keywords camp referrals, referral marketing, Camp Tree, camper enrollment, staff recruitment, camp growth, word of mouth marketing, CampMinder integration, ambassador programs, camp operations, camp software, summer camp marketing Sound Bites "Camp needs to be referable." “Often at camp, it seems like the default is to work harder and not necessarily smarter." "You can't manage what you don't measure." Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest Peter Elbaum, Camp Tree Chapters 00:03 Introduction and Setting the Scene 00:30 The Power of Camp Ministry 01:00 Building Relationships Through Camp Experiences 02:09 Marketing Insights: The Importance of Retargeting 05:43 Introducing Peter Elbaum and Camp Tree 07:49 Peter's Journey: From Camp to Tech 10:33 The Impact of Software Engineering on Camp Operations 12:15 Identifying Challenges in Camp Management 15:59 Acquiring Camp Tree: A New Chapter 18:16 The Value of Camp Tree for Camps 20:46 Referral Programs: What Works? 24:24 Success Stories: Measuring ROI with Camp Tree 26:51 Special Offer and Closing Thoughts Resources Camp Tree — https://camptree.org Promo Code: GYC26 for $150 off your first year of Camp Tree Camp Operations Newsletter — https://campoperations.com Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: PBVNSIQCRJAN17OM
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S1 · E14
June 26 · 36 min
EP 14 | How Camps Can Access Free Advertising on Google via the Google Ads Grant
Many camps struggle with visibility—not because their programs lack value, but because the right families, churches, and retreat planners never discover them. Mark opens the episode with a practical camp marketing tip on following up with retreat inquiries that have gone silent, sharing a simple email subject line that can restart conversations and recover lost bookings. Then Carl shares how an unexpected project at Refreshing Mountain Camp introduced him to Google Ads and ultimately launched a career helping camps grow through digital marketing. The conversation then turns to one of the biggest opportunities available to nonprofit camps: the Google Ad Grant. Carl explains how eligible 501(c)(3) organizations can receive up to $10,000 per month in free Google advertising, walks through the application process, campaign setup, keyword strategy, and the common mistakes that prevent camps from seeing results. He also shares real examples of camps using the grant to generate more registrations, retreat inquiries, and community engagement, along with his perspective on how AI is changing search and what camp leaders should be doing to stay visible online. Keywords Google Ads Grant, nonprofit marketing, camp marketing, retreat center marketing, Google advertising, camp enrollment, nonprofit advertising, digital marketing, summer camps, retreat bookings Sound Bites "About fifty percent of the camps I talk to have no idea the grant program exists." "One of the biggest mistakes camps make is they apply for the grant and then they never do anything else with it." "The reality is organic listings just continue to get pushed further and further down." "You could start showing up at the top of Google and not have to pay for the ads." Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Resources How to Apply for a Google Ads Grant https://growyourcamppodcast.com/blog/how-to-apply-for-google-ad-grant/ Google for Nonprofits Program Website https://www.google.com/nonprofits/ Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: UTVAPPJTMM75SPDU
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S1 · E13
June 19 · 57 min
Ep 13 | Increase Camp Revenue Without Adding More Guests
Many camp leaders assume the only way to grow revenue is to add more guests, build more facilities, or create more programs. But what if growth starts with better stewardship of the capacity you already have? Mark Fisher shares the personal story that reshaped his career, including the health crisis and board decision that led him from camp leadership into consulting. That journey sets the stage for a practical conversation about one of the most misunderstood topics in camping: pricing. Mark and Carl discuss why many camps underprice their highest-demand dates, how waitlists reveal hidden opportunities, and why demand-based pricing is about stewardship—not simply charging more. They break down practical ways to get started, including seasonal pricing, using waitlists as a decision-making tool, giving booking teams flexibility to solve problems, and creating pricing options that help both camps and guests succeed. The episode also opens with a practical marketing tip on expanding your camp's online visibility through free directory listings, including Google Maps, Apple Maps, Yelp, tourism websites, and camp-specific directories. Keywords demand-based pricing, camp pricing strategy, camp revenue growth, camp sustainability, seasonal pricing, camp waitlists, retreat center pricing, camp stewardship, camp capacity management Sound Bites "Our fifth son is being raised by a different father." "That day, that generosity unlocked the future for me." "The F word. It's four letters and it's full." "We're full, we're full. And I'll say, that's a cuss word we don't use. We say, we have a wait list." "Waitlisting is really the indicator on a leader's dashboard." Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Chapters 00:00 Episode Soundbites 00:13 Introduction 01:17 Quick Camp Marketing Tip 06:55 Mark's Story 18:10 Camp Pricing 22:15 The Waitlist: Your Demand Signal 34:15 Putting Demand-Based Pricing to Work 42:20 Communicating Price Changes 47:32 Real Results & Camp Stories 52:08 Baby Steps to Get Started Resources Camp Directory Listings Guide Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. Music licensed through Soundstripe. Code: PEUWHTCU2NBTYHZJ, BQHFSGNXOLYO5MEY, BI46AFUWOYJCJMZS
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S1 · E12
May 25 · 1 hr 2 min
Ep 12 | The Real Reason Guests Rebook Your Camp
Refreshing Mountain has doubled revenue over the last decade while maintaining a strong focus on guest relationships and retention. In this episode, Administrative Director Justin Harnish shares the principles that helped the camp grow without losing the culture that built its reputation. Mark opens with a personal dedication to his mother’s 85th birthday and reflects on the people and experiences that shape camp leaders over time. Carl’s quick marketing tip explains why camps should stop sending every audience to the same homepage and how dedicated landing pages can improve conversions and lead generation. Justin then shares his personal camp story and how a formative camp experience shaped both his faith and belief in the long-term power of camp ministry. The conversation explores the two “Christian marketing principles” guiding Refreshing Mountain’s growth strategy. “Relationships Trump Everything” focuses on intentional guest care and personalized communication. “Return Business Is Worth Investing In” covers stewardship, rebooking strategy, guest retention, and why long-term relationships drive sustainable growth. Justin also shares lessons around guest feedback, occupancy planning, and how adding meeting room capacity became a major growth driver for year-round bookings. Keywords camp marketing, camp retention, rebooking strategy, retreat center growth, guest experience, Christian camp leadership, landing pages for camps Sound Bites “Relationships trump everything.” “Return business is a metric of integrity.” “The camps growing fastest online make visitors instantly feel: ‘This is exactly for me.’” “Happy returning guests are your best marketing.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest Justin Harnish, Refreshing Mountain Chapters 00:05 Welcome & Episode Dedication 02:38 Quick Camp Marketing Tip 08:40 Justin's Camp Story 09:29 The Power of Camp Experiences 11:57 Refreshing Mountain Background 14:51 Balancing Business and Ministry 15:57 Org Challenges During Season of Growth 22:52 Principles of Relationship-Driven Service 24:53 Understanding Rebooking and Customer Feedback 26:42 Enhancing Customer Experience Through Personalization 30:09 The Importance of Rebooking and Customer Relationships 37:13 Investing in Return Business 45:20 The Impact of Meeting Room Capacity on Revenue 45:57 Growth Partnership with Improve & Grow 48:22 Making Way for Innovation at Camp 53:22 Episode Debrief with Mark & Carl 59:42 Closing Message & New Website Features Resources Refreshing Mountain Christian Marketing Principles Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes.
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S1 · E11
May 22 · 50 min
Ep 11 | How a Camp Went from Struggling to Waitlisted
Hume New England launched with a bold mission: bring the Hume camp experience to the Northeast and expand gospel impact in a region with fewer large Christian camp ministries. But early years brought operational setbacks, financial pressure, staffing challenges, and a camp model that didn’t fit the realities of East Coast churches. Before the interview, Mark shares a marketing tip about “riding the wave” instead of trying to create one. He explains how listening to church leaders led Hume New England to shorten camp sessions, lower pricing, and redesign programs around what churches and families actually needed—changes that ultimately helped fill more beds and increase ministry impact. Brian Mount then shares what it was like stepping into Hume New England as COO during COVID and leading a turnaround effort that required operational changes, measurable marketing systems, and a willingness to challenge long-standing assumptions. The conversation explores adapting camp structures for smaller churches, embracing guest groups, improving follow-up and marketing accountability, and overcoming internal resistance to change. The results were significant: Summer campers grew from roughly 620 to nearly 1,200 Guest group revenue increased from about $500,000 to $1.4 million Camp seasons moved from empty beds to waitlists Staff morale and ministry momentum dramatically improved Brian also shares encouragement for camp leaders navigating difficult seasons and explains why understanding your market may require rethinking long-held traditions without compromising mission. Keywords camp growth, Christian camp leadership, camp marketing, guest group strategy, summer camp enrollment, camp profitability, church partnerships, Hume New England, ministry growth, leadership development Sound Bites “Tradition is a tool. It’s not a trophy.” “We were doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.” “Every empty bed is a potential missed opportunity for someone to hear the gospel.” “Start small and don’t be afraid to fail.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest Brian Mount, LifeShape International Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 00:56 Quick Camp Marketing Tip 04:19 Brian Mount Introduction & Camp Story 07:38 Leadership and Transformation at Hume 09:13 Early Days at Hume 15:51 Lessons Learned from Early Struggles 17:39 Personal Journey and Influences 19:09 The Decision to Partner for Growth 23:51 Strategic Changes and Marketing Innovations 29:36 Indicators of Positive Change 34:00 Achieving Profitability and Impact 40:06 Encouragement for Struggling Camp Leaders Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes.
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S1 · E10
May 9 · 1 hr 30 min
Ep 10 | The Camp Messaging Problem: Why Clarity Beats Cleverness
In this episode Mark opens with a tribute to one of his earliest camp mentors, Neil Fichthorn, the longtime executive director at Sandy Cove. Mark shares the leadership lessons Neil taught him — including the phrase that became foundational to this podcast: “You can’t minister to empty beds.” Carl’s quick camp marketing tip focuses on why your Google Business Profile may be quietly costing you bookings. He explains how local search results work, why reviews and categories matter, and how small profile updates can improve visibility for camps and retreat centers. The featured conversation is with Casey Fuerst, owner of Tic Tac Toe Marketing, who spent 18 years serving at a Lutheran camp in Nebraska before launching an agency focused on camps and nonprofits. Casey shares how camp shaped her personally and why she now helps camps communicate more clearly. The conversation explores one of the biggest problems Casey sees on camp websites: cluttered messaging. Using her “hall closet” analogy, she explains why trying to communicate everything at once confuses parents and retreat guests instead of helping them take action. The episode also covers Donald Miller’s StoryBrand framework and practical ways camps can simplify messaging, strengthen positioning, and improve marketing clarity. Keywords camp marketing, camp website design, StoryBrand for camps, camp messaging, Christian camp marketing Sound Bites “If everybody thinks their stuff belongs on the front page of the website, it becomes the junk drawer.” “Clear is kind. Clever is not.” “Most organizations are communicating at an eight when customers only need a two.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest Casey Fuerst, Tic Tac Toe Marketing Chapters 00:05 Introduction 02:11 Today's Topic: Messaging & Clarity 02:45 Quick Tip: Your Google Business Profile 10:19 Messaging and Brand Positioning 10:51 Meet Casey Fuerst 12:31 Casey's Camp Story 12:34 Personal Camp Stories and Experiences 13:37 The Impact of Camp Experiences on Young Adults 16:11 Marketing Insights for Camps 16:20 The Hall Closet Problem 19:28 The Importance of Clear Messaging 22:01 The StoryBrand Framework 22:11 The StoryBrand Framework in Action 25:14 Real-World Examples of Messaging Success 25:43 Finding Your One Message 28:14 Navigating New Audiences and Digital Marketing 28:56 Messaging Wins: Real Stories 31:14 Celebrating Podcast Milestones and Future Directions 38:56 Where Messaging Works Best 42:45 Reaching New Audiences 46:14 Wrap-Up & Celebrating Episode 10 Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes.
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S1 · E9
May 2 · 51 min
Ep 9 | How Systems & Culture Helped Emmanuel Pines Double Revenue
In this episode Mark shares a quick tip about rebooking—the most affordable and often overlooked path to growth. He explains why camps should aim for 60–80% rebooking, how it reflects guest experience, and why low rebooking points to a systems problem, not demand. He also outlines practical steps: know your numbers, pursue rebookings immediately, and protect dates. Carl then interviews Kathi and Bob Terrell, who share how Emanuel Pines Camp grew from roughly $900,000 to over $2 million in a few years. Their story begins with a plateau—limited growth, aging facilities, and reactive leadership—until they chose to pursue growth intentionally and bring in outside perspective. The biggest changes weren’t just marketing. They clarified positioning, improved first impressions, and focused on attracting the right audience. At the same time, they invested in their team with systems like the “I See You” recognition program and mission-driven onboarding to reinforce culture daily. They also introduced tools like the “Peace Card” to train staff in customer service and ensure every guest interaction reflects their mission. Along with ongoing facility improvements and a focus on removing distractions, these changes strengthened experience and loyalty. As demand increased, they adapted by adding staff, clarifying roles, and implementing virtual sales to improve responsiveness and conversion. The result was not just revenue growth, but stronger rebooking, healthier culture, and a more sustainable operation. Keywords camp marketing strategy, rebooking systems, guest experience, team culture, retreat center growth, virtual sales, camp leadership, first impressions, staff development Sound Bites “If you’re below 50% rebooking, something is broken.” “We started looking at camp through someone else’s eyes.” “We just became more intentional about everything.” “Nothing is more important than attending to guest needs.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guests Kathi Terrell & Bob Terrell, Emmanuel Pines Camp Chapters 00:00 Episode Welcome 00:45 Quick Camp Marketing Tip: Rebooking 07:36 Bob and Kathy's Camp Journey 13:15 Understanding Emanuel Pines Camp 15:42 Challenges and Growth at Emanuel Pines 23:26 Key Changes Leading to Growth 23:56 Understanding Purposeful Growth Strategies 25:45 Cultivating Team Relationships and Culture 28:00 Mission-Driven Orientation and Guest Experience 30:20 The Peace Card: Enhancing Customer Service 35:24 Navigating Marriage and Leadership 40:20 Virtual Sales: A New Approach to Growth 46:30 Sustaining Marriage and Leadership in Camp Management 51:41 Podcast Intro Animation 16x9.mp4 Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes.
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S1 · E8
April 20 · 36 min
Ep 8 | From Spiky Bookings to Steady Growth
In this episode, Carl shares a practical marketing tip on turning past guests into your next booking engine—one of the fastest, most cost-effective ways to increase occupancy without chasing entirely new leads. By segmenting your audience and sending timely, relevant follow-up emails, camps can unlock a major source of repeat business that often goes underused. Then Mark interviews Bob Briscoe, Executive Director of Williamsburg Christian Retreat Center, brings a long-term perspective shaped by decades in camping—from his early experiences as a camper and trail guide to leading the organization through seasons of change. That background informs how he approaches leadership, balancing mission, relationships, and financial sustainability. The conversation walks through how the camp moved from inconsistent, “spiky” bookings to steady growth. Faced with unpredictable revenue and underperforming programs, Bob and his team made key decisions to simplify their offerings, focus on profitable guest groups, and invest in improving their marketing visibility. The result was fewer gaps, stronger midweek bookings, and significant growth in room nights—including doubling occupancy in one of their primary lodging facilities. This episode highlights what actually drives sustainable growth: clear decisions about what to stop doing, systems that support consistent marketing, and the willingness to seek outside help when internal capacity runs thin. Keywords camp growth, retreat center marketing, camp occupancy, guest group strategy, camp revenue growth, digital marketing for camps, camp leadership, camp operations, retreat booking consistency Sound Bites “Our bookings were spiky… full weekends and then crickets.” “The big change was answering the phone because it was ringing.” “You can’t afford the person you need—so get the right help another way.” “Be open to asking for help and being teachable.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest Bob Briscoe, Williamsburg Christian Retreat Center Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Podcast Format 00:05 Marketing Strategies for Camps 03:00 Bob Briscoe's Journey in Camp Leadership 06:05 Understanding Williamsburg Christian Retreat Center 09:12 Challenges and Changes in Camp Operations 12:14 Navigating Program Adjustments and Guest Groups 16:51 Innovative Retreat Solutions 17:58 Recognizing the Need for External Help 19:23 Evaluating Marketing Partnerships 22:15 Navigating Budget Approvals 24:20 Implementing Changes Post-COVID 26:37 Tracking Revenue Growth 28:24 Creative Strategies During Challenges 29:24 Future Growth Focus 31:07 Encouragement for Stuck Camp Directors 35:33 Personal Insights on Marriage Growth Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes.
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S1 · E7
April 11 · 1 hr 10 min
Ep 7 | How One Camp Used Better Follow-Up to 5X New Registrations
In this episode, Mark shares a practical tip on using virtual tours to help camps close more bookings by making it easier for planners to visualize and sell the experience internally. Then Carl and Mark sit down with Dusty Ledbetter, Digital Outreach Manager at Camp Cho-Yeh, to unpack a different approach to summer camp marketing—one focused less on driving traffic and more on converting interest into action. Dusty explains how his team built a system to capture leads, follow up quickly, and guide families through the decision process. Instead of relying on parents to register on their own, Camp Cho-Yeh uses targeted offers, structured landing pages, and a trained sales team to turn inquiries into conversations—and conversations into registrations. The result: 300+ new camper registrations from paid campaigns, with significantly higher conversion rates than traditional camp marketing funnels. This episode breaks down the full system—from Meta ads and messaging strategy to sales calls, follow-up processes, and lifetime value math. If your camp is generating interest but struggling to convert it into registrations, this provides a practical model to close that gap. Keywords camp marketing, summer camp registration, lead generation, camp growth, Meta ads, Facebook ads, sales systems, conversion strategy, camp revenue, digital marketing for camps Sound Bites “The ad’s job isn’t to sell—it’s to stop the scroll and get the click.” “70% of the conversion happens after the click.” “About 88% of our qualified leads now turn into registrations.” Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest Dusty Ledbetter, Camp Cho-Yeh Chapters 00:00 Introduction 02:00 Camp Marketing Tip: Virtual Tours That Close Deals 05:30 Dusty’s Camp Story and Background 10:00 The Problem with Traditional Camp Marketing Funnels 14:30 Why Traffic Alone Doesn’t Drive Registrations 18:00 Building a Lead Capture System for Summer Camp 22:00 The Role of Sales Calls in Camp Enrollment 27:00 Landing Page Strategy and Lead Offers 33:00 Meta Ads: Messaging, Creative, and Targeting 40:00 Lead Follow-Up Systems That Convert 44:00 Understanding Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC) 48:00 Lifetime Value (LTV) and Smarter Budgeting 52:00 Scaling Growth Through Testing and Iteration Resources Camp Cho-Yeh > Summer Camp Landing Page > Facebook Ad Library > Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes.
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S1 · E6
April 3 · 40 min
Ep 6 | From Empty Beds to a Waiting List
In this episode, Carl shares a camp marketing tip on how answering unasked questions on your website can dramatically increase retreat inquiries. Then Mark sits down with John Schwieterman, Executive Director of Cross Oaks Camp and Retreat Center, to unpack how he transformed a struggling camp into a rapidly growing operation. John shares the real story behind that growth—from cold calling hundreds of churches with limited results to implementing a system that now generates consistent inbound leads and an 88% close rate. They walk through the practical changes that made the difference, including website improvements, digital marketing strategy, and the leadership shift required to stop doing everything alone. You’ll hear what actually worked, what didn’t, and how to think about growth as both an operational and strategic challenge. If you’re trying to fill more beds, increase bookings, or move your camp out of survival mode, this episode gives you a clear, real-world example of what that path can look like. Keywords camp growth, retreat bookings, camp marketing, lead generation, website optimization, digital marketing, camp leadership, nonprofit growth, camp revenue, guest groups Key Topics Why most camp websites fail to convert inquiries The shift from cold outreach to inbound lead generation Website structure and FAQ strategy for better conversions Using Google Ads and SEO to drive qualified leads Improving close rates with better lead quality The operational challenges that come with growth Leadership mindset: when and how to ask for help Measuring ROI on marketing investments Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Guest John Schwieterman, Executive Director Cross Oaks Camp and Retreat Center Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview 02:00 Camp Marketing Tip: Answering Unasked Questions 05:08 John’s Camp Story and Background 08:48 Challenges Facing Camp Growth 12:45 Early Growth Efforts and Cold Calling Strategy 18:48 Realizing the Need for Help 21:16 Investing in Marketing and Systems 23:24 Website and Lead Generation Transformation 27:46 Results: Higher Close Rates and Revenue Growth 30:29 The Operational Reality of Growth 31:54 Leadership Lessons and Asking for Help 33:08 Advice for Executive Directors 35:03 Understanding Marketing ROI 39:26 Time Management and Scaling Leadership Resources Cross Oaks Camp and Retreat Center > Google for Nonprofits > Grow Your Camp Podcast > Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes.
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S1 · E5
March 27 · 45 min
Ep 5 | The Missing Pages That Drive Retreat Bookings for Camps
In this episode, Mark shares a camp marketing tip about the importance of asking for and responding to reviews. Then Carl and Mark explore how camp websites can significantly boost guest group bookings by improving website structure, messaging, and inquiry processes. They share practical strategies, real-world examples, and a special offer to help camp leaders grow their retreat programs. Keywords camp website, guest groups, retreat bookings, marketing strategy, camp marketing, website optimization, inquiry funnel, camp revenue, digital marketing, camp leadership Key Topics Website structure for guest groups Messaging and positioning for retreats Inquiry and lead capture strategies Case studies of successful camp websites Special offer: Growth Action Plan Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Camp Growth Strategies 00:37 The Importance of Customer Reviews 05:13 Challenges in Camp Marketing 06:41 Personal Journey into Camp Ministry 10:09 Website Strategies for Guest Groups 12:09 Revenue Insights and Capacity Management 12:46 Maximizing Revenue Through Guest Group Rentals 13:32 The Disconnect in Camp Leadership Perspectives 15:09 Understanding Guest Group Needs 17:44 Creating an Effective Retreat Section on Websites 20:53 Essential Content for Retreat Websites 23:15 Key Questions for Potential Guests 25:53 The Importance of Inquiry Forms 28:13 The Pricing Debate: To Show or Not to Show? 37:51 Implementing Effective Website Changes for Growth 40:45 Growth Action Plan for Camps Resources: Improve and Grow Website Services - https://improveandgrow.com/ Cross Oak Camp - https://crossoakamp.com/ They Ask You Answer by Marcus Sheridan Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes.
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S1 · E4
March 27 · 25 min
Ep 4 | Growth Comes from Saying No
In this episode, Carl shares a tip on how camps can get to the top of Google quickly by leveraging the Google Ads grant and Mark interviews Ryan Moore from Kaleidoscope. Ryan shares insights on strategic planning, camp growth, and the importance of clarity and courage for camp leaders. Discover practical tips, inspiring stories, and a special offer for listeners to enhance your camp's impact and sustainability. Keywords: camp growth, strategic planning, camp leadership, camp marketing, Kaleidoscope, camp development, non-profit, camp strategy, camp sustainability, growth tips Key Topics The role of clarity and courage in camp growth How strategic planning drives camp success The importance of outcomes over features Using data and assessment for growth Stories of camp impact and transformation Hosts Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth Guest Ryan Moore, Kaleidoscope, Inc Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Technical Setup 00:05 Welcome to the Grow Your Camp Podcast 01:25 Marketing Tip: Google Ads Grant for Nonprofits 04:51 Ryan Moore's Camp Connection and Story 08:07 Overview of Kaleidoscope's Services 12:18 Challenges Facing Camps: Clarity and Courage 17:25 Case Study: Strategic Planning Success 20:49 Conclusion and Call to Action Resources Learn more about Kaleidoscope Consulting at https://kaleidoscopeinc.com/ Register for the Google for Nonprofits program to access the Google Ads Grant at https://www.google.com/nonprofits/ Submit a Topic to the Grow Your Camp Podcast via our website at https://growyourcamppodcast.com Talk to Carl at Improve & Grow about getting help setting up your Google Ad Grant at https://improveandgrow.com/ Have a question you'd like us to cover? Click here to record your question > Want Help Growing Your Camp? Click here to schedule a call > If you’re enjoying the podcast, be sure to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes.
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Showing 1–20 of 23 episodes