The Giving Done Right Podcast with Phil Buchanan

The Center for Effective Philanthropy

From the Center for Effective Philanthropy (CEP), Giving Done Right offers hard-hitting conversations and vital resources to help you make an impact with your charitable giving. Whether you’re an individual donor or your job involves making grants, the challenges are universal: Where should I give? How do I know which nonprofits are effective, and how do I best support them? How can I increase the odds that I am making a difference? Join host Phil Buchanan as he welcomes nonprofit leaders, effective donors, and experts to answer philanthropy’s burning questions and bust some myths. In a time of great challenge for nonprofits and the communities they serve, giving is especially crucial: Giving Done Right cuts through the noise and focuses on what you need to know to be effective.

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S6 · E3
Thursday · 50 min
Who Should Control The Money? With Glen Galaich and Jamie Allison
Phil Buchanan is joined by Elisha Smith Arrillaga, CEP's Vice President of Research, as co-host for a conversation focused on some of philanthropy's oldest tensions: who should decide how charitable dollars get spent and how to balance short-term needs with the long view? Their guests, Glen Galaich, CEO of the Stupski Foundation, and Jamie Allison, Executive Director of the Walter & Elise Haas Fund, are usually the ones asking the questions, as frequent co-hosts on Glen’s podcast, Break Fake Rules. Glen makes the case from his new book, CONTROL: Why Big Giving Falls Short, that too much charitable wealth sits parked in private equity and hedge fund accounts rather than moving out to the communities that need it, and that donors should treat public stewardship, not private control, as their guiding value. Jamie pushes back on the idea that this is a binary choice between spending down and staying perpetual, describing how the Walter & Elise Haas Fund has worked to increase payout and shift toward larger, unrestricted grants without abandoning a long time horizon. Together, they debate what foundations with large endowments owe to this moment of crisis for nonprofits, why "responsiveness" matters more than any single spending formula, and what foundations might learn from everyday donors. Disclosure Note: The Stupski Foundation is a CEP podcast sponsor and the Walter & Elise Haas Fund provides grant support to CEP. Resources: CONTROL: Why Big Giving Falls Short Break Fake Rules Giving Done Right book Center for Effective Philanthropy State of Nonprofits 2026: What Donors Need to Know Ruby’s Pantry closes The Democracy We Are Making: Philanthropy and America’s Next 250 Years A Sector in Crisis: How U.S. Nonprofits and Foundations Are Responding to Threats Rethinking Payout: The Hidden Costs of Undervaluing Social Return A Call for Higher Payout from a Believer in Perpetual Foundations The Debate That Belongs in Every Foundation Boardroom Right Now US Firms That Kept DEI Policies Thrived
S6 · E2
September 24 · 49 min
Lysa Ratliff Wants You to Trust Her
As nonprofits face sharply increased demand, deep federal funding cuts, and a fundraising climate unlike anything in recent memory, Lysa Ratliff, CEO of KABOOM!, joins Phil Buchanan for an unusually candid conversation about what it takes to lead right now, and why she refuses to soften the truth to make anyone comfortable. Ratliff discusses KABOOM!'s new report, State of Our Kids, which finds that 28 million children in the U.S. don't have access to a quality park within a 10-minute walk from their home. She explains why play is the foundation of childhood development, and walks through the report's unflinching look at the mental health crisis facing young people, including the adultification of Black children and the impact of a rise in ICE arrests on Latino families. She also talks candidly about the promise and limits of a landmark, unrestricted MacKenzie Scott gift, why so few other funders have followed that lead, and why she believes donors need to stop nitpicking nonprofits' budgets and start trusting their expertise to solve solvable problems. In a time defined by uncertainty, Ratliff makes the case for honesty over comfort: "It's not someone's right and someone's wrong. It's how do we, as adults, have really honest conversations that allow us to see very clearly what's going on around us and what we need to do to solve those challenges." Resources: KABOOM! State of Our Kids Report The 25 in 5 Initiative to End Playspace Inequity Center for Effective Philanthropy State of Nonprofits 2026: What Donors Need to Know Youth Truth
S6 · E1
September 17 · 43 min
Jeff Atwood and Dr. Betsy Burton Are Giving Big and Fast
Phil Buchanan sits down with spouses Jeff Atwood, co-founder of Stack Overflow and Discourse, and Dr. Betsy Burton, a scientist who has helped develop cancer therapies, to talk about their commitment to give away $50 million, half their family's wealth, over five years, with the bulk of it going toward guaranteed income programs in rural America. Jeff and Betsy describe a two-part strategy that began with $1 million, no-strings-attached gifts to eight organizations they trusted to excel with the money, before turning to what they call "fire abatement": tackling the systemic conditions that create so much need in the first place. That work led them to guaranteed income pilots in West Virginia, North Carolina, and Mississippi, run in partnership with GiveDirectly and built on research from Open Research's landmark basic income study. They share what that data actually shows about how people spend unconditional cash — including a drop in substance use and unexpectedly high rates of people sharing their payments with neighbors in need — and push back hard on the assumptions that so often shape how donors think about giving directly to people. The conversation also gets personal, as Jeff reflects on his father's own path out of generational poverty in West Virginia, and the two discuss raising philanthropically minded kids, their admiration for MacKenzie Scott's trust-based approach, and their frustration with slow-moving giving pledges that lack a real timeline for getting money out the door. Resources: Stay Gold, America "We Have Everything We Need": Jeff Atwood and Betsy Burton's Bold Mission to Guarantee Minimum Income in Rural America - Denver Frederick Giving Cash to Those in Need with Paul Niehaus of GiveDirectly Fighting Poverty with Direct Cash Transfers, Featuring Jesús Gerena UBI Data SEED Project Breaking the Mold: The Transformative Effects of MacKenzie Scott’s Big Gifts
September 10 · 1 min
Introducing: Season 6 of Giving Done Right
Federal policy shifts continue to upend the landscape for domestic nonprofits, civil society, and international aid alike, leaving donors facing urgent questions about where and how to give. This season on the Giving Done Right podcast, host Phil Buchanan sits down with philanthropic and nonprofit leaders to explore what effective giving looks like in a moment of real strain and real opportunity. Together, these conversations dig into the questions donors are asking today: how to give when trust and partnership matter more than ever, the tension between short-term needs and a long-term view, and what good stewardship really demands of those with the resources to act. Follow along with season six of Giving Done Right for candid, urgent, and ultimately hopeful conversations about how to make your charitable giving as effective, and as meaningful, as it can be.
August 27 · 33 min
A Special Goodbye from Grace
After 15 years at CEP and more than 50 episodes co-hosting Giving Done Right, Grace Nicolette is stepping away. In this special episode, Phil Buchanan turns the microphone to her. Together they look back on how philanthropy has shifted over the past decade and a half, from the rise of multi-year general operating support to the risks of inaction in a moment of crisis? Grace shares the guests and stories that have stayed with her, including April Tam Smith, Jeremy Lin, and a give and take with GiveDirectly's Paul Niehaus over effective altruism. She also opens up about the personal threads running through her career: her faith, her parents' own story of generosity, and the family reasons drawing her toward her next chapter. Through it all, one idea keeps surfacing for Grace: in philanthropy, relationships matter most. Resources: A Fond Farewell to a Catalyst of CEP’s Growth and Evolution Relationships Matter: Program Officers, Grantees, and the Keys to Success
February 10 · 53 sec
We Need Your Help
We want to hear from you about how the conversations on this podcast are making a difference in your approach to philanthropy. If our show has helped you, we want to hear about it! Can you take a few moments to send us a voice memo to gdrpodcast@cep.org? Please include your name, institutional affiliation if you have one, role, and the answer to these questions: What specific ways has Giving Done Right influenced your giving and the way you think about philanthropy? And if it hasn't, what topics would you like to hear that would help? Share your voice memo with us at gdrpodcast@cep.org. We can’t wait to hear from you! Thanks for listening!
S5 · E14
Dec 2, 2025 · 1 hr 12 min
Ezra Klein on Philanthropy’s Role at a Precarious Time
As the current federal administration makes sweeping cuts to social safety net programs, political divisions deepen, and the guardrails of American democracy are tested, what is philanthropy’s role in this precarious time? In the final episode of this season, Phil Buchanan and Grace Nicolette interview New York Times columnist and podcast host Ezra Klein live at CEP’s 2025 conference. Klein contends that America needs to renew a politics of plenty, face up to the failures of liberal governance, and abandon what he calls the chosen scarcities that have deformed American life. But what does this analysis mean for philanthropy, particularly at a moment of so many competing and urgent crises? Additional Resources: “Mounting Pressure: U.S. Foundations and Nonprofits on the 2025 Political Climate” Elisha Smith Arrillaga, Ph.D. on the Giving Done Right podcast “Abundance,” by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson
S5 · E13
Nov 20, 2025 · 41 min
Lessons on Disaster Giving With Patty McIlreavy
Effective disaster giving often begins before a disaster even occurs. So says Patty McIlreavy, president and CEO of the Center for Disaster Philanthropy, in this popular episode from the Giving Done Right archives. In conversation with hosts Phil Buchanan and Grace Nicolette, Patty offers insight into how donors can support disaster prevention by focusing on reducing vulnerabilities as well as support recovery efforts, and the most common pitfalls for donors to consider when responding to disasters. Patty shares her deep expertise on what can make disaster giving successful (or unsuccessful) and the three discuss examples that still hold lessons for donors looking to mitigate disasters — or prevent them — today. Additional Resources: Center for Disaster Philanthropy From Rapid Response to Sustainable Solutions: Disaster Response and Recovery in Post-Earthquake Haiti – Harvard Humanitarian Initiative Report “Complex Humanitarian Emergencies: Where Crisis, Conflict, Climate, and COVID Meet” – Center for Disaster Philanthropy Disasters, Dollars And Decisions: Lessons For Nonprofits To Prioritize Where And How To Help – Forbes Unprecedented Times Call For Unprecedented Actions – Forbes Asset-Based Framing: Trabian Shorters
S5 · E12
Nov 13, 2025 · 39 min
Mounting Pressure on Nonprofits: What Donors Need to Know with Elisha Smith Arrillaga
Federal funding cuts and increased demand for their services have left nonprofits across the country and issue areas reeling, with many questioning whether they will survive. The consequences are stark, given the vital work nonprofits do in communities across the country. In this episode, CEP Vice President of Research Elisha Smith Arrillaga, Ph.D. shares just-collected data on what nonprofits are experiencing, exploring questions like which nonprofits have been hardest hit and what steps organizations are taking to respond. She also talks with Phil Buchanan about data on the foundation response to the situation, exploring lessons for individual and institutional donors alike. Smith Arrillaga argues that the existential challenges nonprofits are facing require bold, values-driven responses from donors. Additional Resources: New CEP Research: “Mounting Pressure: U.S. Foundations and Nonprofits on the 2025 Political Climate” CEP’s annual “State of Nonprofits” report for 2025, published May 2025 March 2025 CEP Research snapshot: “Challenging Times” A compilation of additional resources for funders on responding to the current context on the CEP blog
S5 · E11
Nov 6, 2025 · 35 min
How to Get Boards to Help With Fundraising, From The Chronicle of Philanthropy
This week on Giving Done Right, we’re introducing you to another podcast we love: Nonprofits Now: Leading Today, from The Chronicle of Philanthropy. In this episode, two leaders, Kathleen St. Louis Caliento and Nick Grono, join Chronicle CEO Stacy Palmer to explain how they have engaged their board in financial efforts. As nonprofits face economic headwinds — including losses in federal funding, rising costs, and the possibility of a global recession — nonprofit boards play an increasingly essential role. Trustees help with strategy and can also be powerful donors and fundraisers. Yet fewer than a quarter of respondents to a Chronicle survey described their board members as enthusiastic fundraisers. Grono and St. Louis Caliento share their advice on how to inspire boards to champion your mission and share insights from their shared experience of working with trustees to manage unrestricted, multimillion-dollar grants from MacKenzie Scott. St. Louis Caliento runs Cara Collective, a Chicago nonprofit that helps low-income people find jobs. Grono heads the Freedom Fund, an organization that pools funds from donors who want to fight modern-day slavery. He’s the author of “How to Lead Nonprofits: Turning Purpose into Impact to Change the World,” published in 2024.
S5 · E10
Oct 30, 2025 · 52 min
Building Better Schools: David McKinney on Why Student Voice Matters
What happens when education reform takes place without the input or engagement of the young people who will experience its effects? Conversely, what happens when youth voices lead the way to change? Phil Buchanan and Grace Nicolette sit down with their CEP colleague David McKinney, vice president of YouthTruth — a CEP initiative — to discuss how systematically listening to young people at scale can transform education, both at the school and system level. David shares not only his own formative experiences facing exclusion as a young person, but draws on data collected from more than 3 million student surveys YouthTruth has administered to offer powerful examples of how schools have used student voice to close achievement gaps, address bullying, improve belonging, and build stronger communities. He also challenges common assumptions that have undergirded education reforms for decades, including top-down approaches and using common metrics of success, like test scores, in isolation. Additional Resources: YouthTruth Aspen Institute TNTP Public Allies YouthTruth’s “Youth Civic Empowerment” Report “The Anti-Bullying Report” from YouthTruth Questions about YouthTruth’s work? Reach out to David at david.mckinney@youthtruth.org
S5 · E9
Oct 23, 2025 · 42 min
Beyond the Model Minority Myth: Ben Hires on Supporting AAPI Communities
How does the "model minority myth" impact how funders view and support Asian immigrant communities? What role do disaggregated data play in ensuring their thriving? In a conversation with Ben Hires, CEO of the Boston Chinatown Neighborhood Center (BCNC), hosts Phil Buchanan and Grace Nicolette dig into the vast array of services that BCNC — and nonprofits like it — provide and the crucial role they play in mitigating the challenging realities facing Asian immigrants today, from ICE enforcement creating a climate of fear to long-standing funding gaps that leave essential services underfunded. Ben explains why translation services as well as robust and disaggregated datasets are foundational to ensuring immigrant communities are well served, and why supporting both direct services and systemic change isn't an either-or proposition, but “a both-and.” Despite mounting challenges, Ben's message is unshakably optimistic: "The immigrant community, in particular, we know is resilient and strong and is not going away." Additional Resources Boston Chinatown Neighborhood Center (BCNC) Pao Arts Center Overlooked, Part One: Foundation Support for Asian American and Pacific Islander Leaders and Communities The Asian American Foundation (TAAF) STAATUS Index by TAAF The Asian Community Fund at the Boston Foundation Asian Pacific Islander Civic Action Network in Massachusetts
S5 · E8
Oct 16, 2025 · 43 min
Defending the Freedom to Give with Tonya Allen and John Palfrey
Is the fundamental right to give according to one’s values under attack in America? Phil Buchanan and Grace Nicolette talk with two influential foundation leaders who are sounding the alarm and fighting back. Tonya Allen, president of the McKnight Foundation, and John Palfrey, president of the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, discuss the Unite in Advance initiative — a coalition defending philanthropic rights — and the broader issue of giving as a crucial first amendment right. The conversation explores why these leaders believe we're at a critical moment for U.S. civil society, how funders can increase their giving while continuing work on big goals like racial equity and halting climate change, and what individual donors can do to protect the American tradition of charitable giving. Unite in Advance McKnight Foundation John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation CEP Blog: “A Wave Forming? Funders Taking Action in Response to a Challenging Context” Council on Foundations Independent Sector National Council of Nonprofits GroundBreak Coalition More Perfect Press Forward Giving Done Right episode featuring Julie Butner
S5 · E7
Oct 9, 2025 · 40 min
Faith, Generosity, and Justice: Dilnaz Waraich on Muslim American Giving
What does it mean to tell the Muslim American story of generosity? Why is it important to talk about "religious justice" in philanthropy alongside other forms of justice? These are questions that President of the WF Fund and philanthropic advocate Dilnaz Waraich explores with hosts Phil Buchanan and Grace Nicolette as she shares her journey from kitchen table conversations about giving back to leading narrative change work that highlights Muslim American generosity. In this episode, Dilnaz discusses Islamic principles behind charitable giving, why trust-based philanthropy requires humility, and how interfaith bridge-building strengthens communities. She also offers candid insights about her mistakes as a donor, the power of storytelling in philanthropy, and why "you're just enough" might be the encouragement hesitant donors need to hear right now. Additional Resources WF Fund Inspired Generosity: stories of Muslim American generosity National Center for Family Philanthropy Indiana University Lilly School of Philanthropy “The Next Day” by Melinda French Gates Connections for the Homeless Equal Justice Initiative PBS documentary series: “American Muslims: A History Revealed”
S5 · E6
Oct 2, 2025 · 55 min
An Anti-Authoritarian Playbook for Donors With Joe Goldman
President of the Democracy Fund Joe Goldman offers both urgency and clarity for donors concerned about the U.S.’ democratic backslide into authoritarianism in this conversation. As the second Trump administration consolidates power, he offers a practical three-part framework for strategic, democracy-focused giving: strengthening guardrails, powering breakthrough strategies, and working toward reconstruction. In a conversation that grapples with difficult questions about donor fear and the paralyzing sense of overwhelm that many feel when considering the breadth of threats to democracy right now, Goldman shares specific examples of organizations doing critical work, and an array of ways that donors can get involved. His message is clear: "Courage breeds more courage. Solidarity breeds more solidarity." Additional Resources Democracy Fund Democracy Fund Voice Free DC Press Forward More Equitable Democracy Protect Democracy Democracy Forward Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection at Georgetown Law Government Accountability Project GovAct States United Community Change New America Demos Unite in Advance “Hope in the Dark” by Rebecca Solnit “Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil” by Hannah Arendt
S5 · E5
Sep 25, 2025 · 56 min
A Defining Moment for Democracy: Angelica Salas on the Immigration Crisis
As ICE raids and warrantless arrests by masked federal agents take place around the U.S., Angelica Salas, executive director of CHIRLA (Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights), joins hosts Phil Buchanan and Grace Nicolette to discuss the unprecedented scale of current immigration enforcement and its implications for everyone. Angelica sheds light on what is happening on the streets and in processing and detention centers, including how individuals are being "disappeared,” due process is being denied, and the infrastructure supporting immigrant integration is being systematically dismantled. She also shares how CHIRLA and other immigrant rights organizations are fighting back through rapid response, documentation, advocacy, and in the courts. She offers hope through the remarkable story of how CHIRLA’s community stepped up to support them and the gathering tide of courage shown by advocates, activists, donors, and others. In what she calls "a defining moment for our country" with implications well beyond immigration, she urges donors to support the ecosystem of immigrant rights, and shares her optimism that the U.S. can continue to be a country “built out of the many.” Additional Resources: CHIRLA - The Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights Raids Rapid Response Network (California) Center for Migration Studies National Day Labor Organizing Network “Trump is Building His Own Paramilitary Force,” The Ezra Klein Show - The New York Times Opinion (podcast mentioned by Grace) International Institute of Los Angeles
S5 · E4
Sep 18, 2025 · 1 hr 8 min
Effecting Change at the Local Level: Wisdom from Community Foundation CEOs
Donors looking to make a difference in their local communities can turn to community foundations — local philanthropic institutions driven by giving “of, by, and for the people” and rooted in the goal of creating thriving communities. In this episode, Phil and Grace are joined in conversation by three community foundation leaders: Dick Ober, president and CEO of the New Hampshire Charitable Foundation, LaTida Smith, president of the Winston-Salem Foundation, and Alesha Washington, president and CEO of the Seattle Foundation. In sharing their experiences and approaches, these CEOs encourage donors to embrace their power to engage and effect change in their own community. They reflect on thorny issues including working across ideological lines, supporting often under-appreciated nonprofits and their staff, and the proliferation of giving options for donors. They also explore how to ensure money doesn't sit in institutions, but gets out the door to organizations working in communities. Additional Resources: CEP Report: What Donors Value: How Community Foundations Can Increase Donor Satisfaction, Referrals, and Future Giving Community Foundation Locator, by Council on Foundations Winston-Salem Foundation Seattle Foundation New Hampshire Charitable Foundation Data on Declining U.S. Donor Participation, from the Lily Family School of Philanthropy at Indiana University CEP Reports: State of Nonprofits 2025, 2024, and 2023
S5 · E3
Sep 11, 2025 · 1 hr
Happy Mwende Kinyili on Building a Global, Grassroots Feminist Movement
What happens when $2.83 billion disappears from women's rights funding globally? Conversely, what is possible when donors break out of traditional silos to work collaboratively with the goal of abundance and liberation for all? Phil Buchanan and Grace Nicolette talk with Happy Mwende Kinyili, co-executive director of global feminist fund Mama Cash to explore this unprecedented crisis — and discover surprising reasons for hope. Happy shares powerful stories from Kenya to Argentina, explaining how participatory grantmaking creates lasting change and why "the people who've gotten us into this mess aren't going to get us out of it." For donors feeling overwhelmed by massive global needs or the frustrating retrenchments of recent years, Happy offers their own mother's wisdom: "Don't try to do everything, do something." Learn how small actions can have huge impact, why trust-based philanthropy works, and how co-leadership models are reshaping organizations. Additional Resources Mama Cash Green Girls Platform Sendai Framework for Disaster Risk Reduction Urgent Action Fund Mark Suzman on the Giving Done Right Podcast CEP’s Three Year Study on the Impact of MacKenzie Scott’s Large, Unrestricted Gifts
S5 · E2
Sep 4, 2025 · 51 min
Federal Cuts, Local Food Banks, and what Donors Can Do With Julie Butner
As federal funding cuts shift more responsibility for food insecurity to local communities, Phil Buchanan and Grace Nicolette talk with Julie Butner, president and CEO of the Tarrant Area Food Bank, one of the largest food banks in the United States serving 13 counties around Fort Worth, Texas. Julie reveals that food bank clients are often working families who simply can't afford basic necessities and explains how modern food banks have evolved far beyond emergency food distribution to address root causes through healthcare partnerships, nutrition education, and community gardens. This eye-opening conversation challenges common misconceptions about who needs food assistance and addresses debates about the roles of government and private philanthropy. Julie also offers practical guidance on how donors can make the greatest impact, whether through volunteering, financial support, or advocacy. Additional Resources Tarrant Area Food Bank United for ALICE data Feeding America food bank locator
S5 · E1
Sep 4, 2025 · 59 min
Mark Suzman on Funding Urgent Needs
The dismantling of USAID has created the most profound crisis in international development in decades, threatening to reverse years of progress in public health globally. In the season five premier of Giving Done Right, Phil Buchanan and Grace Nicolette talk with Mark Suzman, CEO of the Gates Foundation, about what this means and how donors can respond. Suzman also shares candid insights about the Gates Foundation's work, including its evolving strategy and Bill Gates' recent announcement committing to spending down $200+ billion in assets by 2045. He offers advice to donors on making a difference in large-scale, global efforts, shares why "one of the huge comparative advantages of philanthropy is being able to take a little bit of risk," and speaks to the role of AI in programs from math education to innovative HIV prevention. Additional Resources Gates Philanthropy Partners CARE Save the Children UNICEF Global Fund to Fight AIDS, TB and Malaria Friends of the Global Fight The End Fund YouthTruth YouthTruth report, “Making Sense of Learning Math: Insights From the Student Experience” The Gates Foundation’s announcement about spending down

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