WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT?

Ayana Elizabeth Johnson

A show about climate solutions, about what we need to do to address the climate crisis, and how to make those things happen — from changing laws, to electrifying buildings, to improving fashion and media. Each week an expert guest joins host Dr. Ayana Elizabeth Johnson to break it down, delightfully, and help us all envision what getting right on climate looks like, so we can reel that vision into reality.

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S5 · E6
Tuesday · 51 min
The Fight for Public Lands 🏕️, with Patagonia + Protect Our Winters
This episode is a double feature, recorded live during NYC Climate Week in a Patagonia store. It’s about fighting to protect our public lands, leveraging outdoor athletes as effective advocates, and (once again) getting environmentalists to vote. Plus, the scoop on Patagonia’s get-out-the-vote project that will give you a $100 incentive for encouraging friends to vote. Today’s episode features: Erin Sprague, CEO of the non-profit Protect our Winters (POW). POW’s mission: “turn passionate outdoor people into climate advocates, working together to protect a future with clean air, clean water and a healthy planet.” Corley Kenna, the chief impact and communications officer at Patagonia, is responsible for advancing the company’s policy and advocacy priorities. (Disclosure: I proudly serve on Patagonia’s board of directors.) Patagonia and Protect Our Winters have been collaborating for years to protect public lands and rally the outdoor industry — which in 2024 generated $1.3 trillion in economic value and supported 5.2 million jobs. It’s always a thrill to see pro-Earth groups flex their electoral power. _____ Mentioned in this episode * The Trump administration announced plans to dramatically shrink the Bears Ears and Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monuments (Chaser: Patagonia: We’re Suing to Protect Public Lands) * Fossil fuel companies spent over $400 million on the last election. * According to the Outdoor Industry Association, nearly 70% of outdoor participants were White, while only 10.3% were Black and 13.4% Hispanic. The majority of participants are women, at 53.4% — the highest ever. * The outdoor industry—in 2024 generated $1.3 trillion in economic value for the outdoor industry and 5.2 million jobs. * Brands for Public Lands * 85% of Montanans polled said they would support a ban on the sale or transfer of public land. * Protect Our Winter’s Stoke the Vote Campaign * 1% for the Planet - businesses contributing 1% of total annual sales to grassroots environmental groups * Patagonia made a commitment to use 100% organic cotton in 1996. * Patagonia Action Works — connect with local environmental action groups. * Time to Vote Campaign — More than 2,000 companies are committed to ensuring people don’t have to choose between earning a paycheck and voting. * Canyon Woodward and Dirt Road Organizing * Caroline Gleich, athlete activist * Patagonia Film: This Is Not A Drill _____ Credits: This episode was produced by Remoy Philip and Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, with support from Jenisha Shrestha. Original music is by Emma Munger, graphic design by Holly Griffin of Design Hungry, and social media support from Feeling Seen Studio. Curtis Brewer captured the audio, and Xavier “Invisionary” Edwards took the photos. Special thanks to Alexa Liccardi, Kathleen Welch, and Kevin Ulnger and the whole team at the Patagonia Upper West Side store for hosting us. _____ Phone banking ☎️ w/ Environmental Voter Project While in New York, amidst the crazy schedule of Climate Week events, we still made time to phone bank (me from my bed in my tiny hotel room). Just like this podcast isn’t on video, neither is phone banking — you can do it in your pajamas! If you don’t know what to do with your election/democracy anxiety, join us! Every Wednesday at 12p ET until Election Day (or many other shifts available). All the cool kids are doing it. 😎 RSVP here: environmentalvoter.org/AEJ _____ Enjoying the podcast? Share it around, spread the word! And be sure to review 🌟 and follow What If We Get It Right? — that helps more people find us and these timely conversations. Thanks for listening. 💛 p.s. If you missed our conversation with Nathaniel Stinnett, founding executive director of Environmental Voter Project, that’s the perfect episode to bop over to next: How the climate movement can build political power 🌎💪🏽 with Nathaniel Stinnett Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S5 · E5
September 22 · 54 min
Mamdani’s team is making moves 🌇, with NYC’s Chief Climate Officer Louise Yeung
In honor of NYC Climate Week, we’re diving into the climate initiatives happening right here in this city. There is so much going on. Our guest is Louise Yeung, New York City’s Chief Climate Officer. We interviewed Louise to give you a real sense of what we actually get when we elect someone who is committed to climate justice. Spoiler: We get a lot of good stuff! We covered everything from battery-powered food carts, to heat pumps in public housing, to BRT (bus rapid transit, we love it), to social cohesion as a resilience strategy. We also touched on the fact that Mayor Mamdani, despite being informed and committed, doesn’t really talk about climate very much, and asked Louise if she could help change that.🤞🏽 Louise’s Hot Take 🥵🌎 — Policy-making is an act of love. We hope this will help motivate you to go all-in for these last six weeks until Election Day. _____ Mentioned in this Episode * NYC Mayor’s Office of Climate and Environmental Justice * NYC Gov Press Release: Plan to Lower Subway Platform Temperatures and Harness Thermal Energy in Lower Manhattan * Mayor Mamdani Announces New York City’s First Bus Shelter With a Cooling Green Roof in Brownsville * During Superstorm Sandy, although 85% of the wetlands in New York and New Jersey had already been destroyed by development, what little remained prevented $625 million of damage. * Heat stress is the leading cause of weather-related deaths–killing more people than hurricanes, tornadoes and floods combined. * NY plug-in solar bill aka the SUNNY Act * NYC Launches Food Vendor Cart Electrification Pilot in Queens * Investing in resilience before a disaster hits can save $6 to $13 on response and recovery. * Urban Ocean Lab + NYC Comptroller Office’s policy memo: Social Cohesion as a Climate Strategy: Reflections on Superstorm Sandy * UOL‘s current work: Leveraging Public Procurement for Climate Action * One thing inspiring Louise — Undrowned: Black Feminist Lessons from Marine Mammals, by Alexis Pauline Gumbs_____ Phone banking ☎️ w/ Environmental Voter Project We’re growing! In week 2 of our phone banking 52 callers made 19,709 dials, and had a whopping 587 conversations with people who were otherwise unlikely to vote. GO TEAM! If you don’t know what to do with your election/democracy anxiety, join us! Every Wednesday at 12p ET until Election Day. All the cool kids are doing it. 😎 — Sign up: environmentalvoter.org/AEJ _____ Enjoying the show? Share it around, spread the word! And review 🌟 and follow What If We Get It Right? podcast platform — that helps more people find us and these timely conversations. _____ Credits: This episode was produced by Remoy Philip and me (Ayana), with support from Jenisha Shrestha. Original music by Emma Munger. Graphic design by Holly Griffin of Design Hungry, and social media support from Feeling Seen Studio. And thank you for listening. 💛 Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S5 · E4
September 17 · 32 min
Rewind: Connecting the dots on climate and democracy 🔄 with Stacey Abrams
First, happy 2nd birthday to What If We Get It Right?: Visions of Climate Futures (the book version). Thank you for welcoming it into the world so warmly (NYT bestseller! 10,000+ of you coming to book tour events!) that it continues on in podcast form. 💛✨ If you haven't yet checked it out, find the (massively updated) paperback edition at your local library or bookstore. The 20 interviews it contains with incredible experts (including, of course, our wise Bill McKibben, star of the “Divest and Protest” chapter) are all still very relevant. Alas, we have not gotten it right, yet. But we are not giving up on life on Earth, right?! Right. _____ And now for today's bonus episode, a delightful conversation with Stacey Abrams from two years ago. It was recorded during Climate Week 2024, when my book was hot of the presses and we were, likewise, in the run-up to an intensely crucial election. 😵‍💫 Stacey was, at the time, senior counsel to Rewiring America, and thinking deeply about what electrification and the clean energy transition could practically look like — especially in communities of color and especially in the South. Some people are surprised with the depth of her expertise on climate but (1) never underestimate Stacey Abrams, and (2) her college thesis was on environmental justice! She’s not new to this. And she connects the dots between climate and democracy like none other. Hot tip: Listen to the end if you want to hear us sing our favorite Prince song together 🎶 _____ Mentioned in this episode: * More than 47 million people in the U.S. — one in seven — live in coastal cities, and nearly 60% of those residents identify as people of color, compared to 37% nationally. * Cancer Alley: The eighty-five-mile stretch along the Mississippi River between New Orleans and Baton Rouge is nicknamed “Cancer Alley” because of its concentration of more than 200 petrochemical facilities and associated high rates of cancer. * Sea level rise could displace 410 million people globally, including 13.1 million people in the U.S., by 2100. * About 40% of the U.S.’s energy-related emissions come from decisions our homes and vehicles. * If you have a gas stove in a poorly ventilated rental apartment, you face a climate catastrophe in your home. * Podcast episode with Ari Matusiak, CEO of Rewiring America _____ Be a Climate Citizen: If you don’t know what to do with your election anxiety, join me and the Environmental Voter Project to phone bank every Wednesday at 12p ET. ☎️🌎 Bring the homies. RSVP here. As Stacey Abrams says, “I don’t need purity, I need participation.” _____ Credits: This episode was produced and edited by Remoy Philip and me (Ayana), with support from Jenisha Shrestha. Original music by Emma Munger. Graphic design by Holly Griffin of Design Hungry, and social media support from Feeling Seen Studio. BIG thanks to Stacey Abrams and her team, and to event sponsors Grist, Rewiring America, Mother Jones, and the Tishman Environment and Design Center at the New School. If you’re enjoying our podcast, pass it along. Drop an episode link in your group chats. Follow and review on your platform of choice. Spread the word. And we’ll be back on Tuesday with a new episode. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S5 · E3
September 15 · 54 min
Clean energy super PAC says “don’t mess with solar” ☀️💰, with Tom Matzzie
The clean energy industry is getting aggressive, Super PAC style. And, honestly, it’s pretty exciting. Our guest this episode is Tom Matzzie, founder and CEO of Clean Choice Energy, an energy supplier whose mission is to make clean energy accessible to all. Highly relevant: he’s also a veteran political strategist. Clean energy entrepreneurs and advocates have largely relied on affordability, efficiency, and environmental upsides to make their case. You know, the facts. But elections aren’t decided on facts alone. They are about power and influence. Well, now there’s a new super PAC in town: the Invest in Tomorrow Coalition. It’s a pro-clean energy PAC founded in response to right-wing politicians killing the Inflation Reduction Act’s support for the clean energy industry. Their Texas-inspired message? “Don’t mess with solar.” _____ Clean energy mascot competition! 🏆 During this conversation, we found ourselves thinking: The clean energy industry needs a mascot. Ayana came up with Freddy the Photon. Bill came up with Sunny Da Riveter. Certainly you can do better. What should it be? Drop your ideas in our newsletter comments! We will think long and hard about your submissions, and in addition major bragging rights, we’ll send the winner a “don’t mess with solar” t-shirt. _____ Mentioned in this episode: * Invest in Tomorrow Coalition PAC * Merch for “Don’t Mess With Solar” and “Don’t Mess With Wind” * Tom’s company: Clean Choice Energy * Chip Roy,one of the leaders of the House Freedom Caucus, quoted on wanting to kill 90% of all clean energy projects. * There are more people working at Arby's sandwich shops than there are mining coal left in America. * Another podcast we recommend: The Nature of With Willow Defebaugh. Each episode, Willow sits down with artists, scientists, and cultural pioneers, from Robin Wall Kimmerer to Esther Perel, to uncover what nature can teach us about creativity, connection, and change. VERY good. Go listen! _____ PHONE BANK ☎️🌎 with Environmental Voter Project Join me every Wednesday until Election Day, from 12 - 1:30p ET. We’re gonna phone bank with EVP — on repeat — to help make sure Earth lovers show up to vote. Bring your crew. All the cool kids are doing it. Sign up at environmentalvoter.org/AEJ _____ Credits: This episode was produced by Remoy Philip and me (Ayana), with support from Jenisha Shrestha. Original music by Emma Munger. Graphic design by Holly Griffin of Design Hungry, and social media support from Feeling Seen Studio. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S5 · E2
September 10 · 42 min
How the climate movement can build political power 🌎💪🏽 with Nathaniel Stinnett
The environmental movement has a voter turnout problem: 11.2 million environmental voters did not vote in the 2024 election. Over 11 MILLION! That’s over half of the people who say climate/environment is their #1 voting issue. On the one hand: Are you kidding me?! WTF 😖 — especially when elections are often decided by mere thousands of votes. On the other hand: So much room for improvement! So, what can we do about this? Enter Environmental Voter Project. Our guest for this episode is Nathaniel Stinnett, founding executive director of EVP. I’ve been a fan and supporter of EVP since day one. It’s a nonpartisan nonprofit whose entire reason for being is getting non-voting environmentalist to become super voters. ✅ Just imagine the world we could have if those 11+ million Americans actually voted and politicians lived in fear of the enviro voting block. Swoon. So dreamy. In Nathaniel’s words: "What the climate movement needs now more than anything is political power, period. We have a whole bunch of policy solutions. We have a whole bunch of technology. What we are missing is political power." But for me, his real zinger of the episode was: "The fossil fuel industry has convinced us the climate crisis is a suicide rather than a homicide. And we’re all just still blaming ourselves." Hot damn. Well, blame where it’s due. But also, what if we get this right...? Nathaniel’s Hot Climate Take 🥵🌎 — Not only should Democrats be talking about climate change, they should embrace it as a wedge issue. Mentioned in this episode: * EVP Impact Report: 11.2 MILLION environmentalists did not vote in the 2024 election * YouGov Weekly Tracking Poll of issues Americans consider most important: 7.1% of US registered voters rank “climate change and environment” as their top priority. (On the upswing!) * Jess Craven’s Substack newsletter: Chop Wood Carry Water * UCSB 2035 Initiative: Polling: Politicians Shouldn’t Hide From Climate Credits: This episode was produced by Remoy Philip and me (Ayana), with support from Jenisha Shrestha. Graphic design by Holly Griffin of Design Hungry, and social media support from Feeling Seen Studio. _____ PHONE BANK ☎️🌎 with Environmental Voter Project Join me every Wednesday until Election Day, from 12 - 1:30p ET. We’re gonna phone bank with EVP — on repeat — to help make sure Earth lovers show up to vote. If 12p on Wednesdays doesn’t work for you, I will miss you, but sign up for EVPs many other shifts. Bring your crew. All the cool kids are doing it. Register here. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S5 · E1
September 8 · 50 min
Climate hushing, EVs 🔌 and creating “The Carbon Wave,” with Leah Stokes
Welcome to Season 5 of What If We Get It Right? 💫 While it may seem counterintuitive given the electoral subject matter, Bill McKibben and I are having a blast gabbing with all these wonderful folks who work on climate and politics. Our first guest is Dr. Leah Stokes, professor of environmental politics, energy policy wonk, activist, and writer. During the Biden administration, she also became a DC insider and was integral to the development and passage of the Inflation Reduction Act – THE biggest climate law in history. With Leah, we reflect/debrief on the IRA, bemoan the empirical absurdity of politicians going quiet on climate, and hear her pitch for abandoning the term “carbon footprint” (that evil/brilliant phrase from the fossil fuel industry) and instead embracing a “carbon wave.” The Carbon Wave is also the title of her new book, well worth reading. Leah’s Hot Climate Take 🥵🌎 — It is cheaper and cleaner to drive an electric vehicle than a gas-powered car and it’s gonna work in every single corner of this country— don't believe the fossil fuel industry lies! If you own a car, it should be an electric car. For more from Leah: * her Substack newsletter Notes from the Electric Era * her podcast A Matter of Degrees, co-hosted with Katharine K. Wilkinson. * her books: The Carbon Wave & Short Circuiting Policy * catch her on book tour Mentioned in this episode: * Inside Climate News: Elected Democrats Have Embraced ‘Climate Hushing.’ Are They Making a Mistake as the Midterms Loom? * Leah’s Substack pieces: Yes, Democrats Should Talk About Climate & No, the Democrats’ Big Climate Law is Not Dead. * Australian’s government has made electricity free during the middle of the day — because solar energy is abundant. * Energy Innovation: “99 percent of existing U.S. coal plants are more expensive to run than replacement by local wind, solar, and energy storage resources.” * The Carbon Wave Calculator _______ PHONE BANK ☎️🌎 with Environmental Voter Project Join me every Wednesday until Election Day from 12 - 1:30p ET. We’re gonna phone bank with the magnificent Environmental Voter Project to help make sure Earth lovers show up to vote. This week we’re calling Maine! Sign up! ______ Credits:This episode was produced by Remoy Philip and Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, with support from Jenisha Shrestha. Graphic design by Holly Griffin of Design Hungry, and social media support from Feeling Seen Studio. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
August 31 · 1 min
Trailer: Ayana and Bill McKibben are teaming up as podcast co-hosts! ✨
Season 5 of the What If We Get It Right? podcast is dedicated to environmental issues in the midterm elections — what’s at stake and how the planet can win. We are going to get INTO IT. Perhaps grappling with this requires a dynamic duo? Well, it can’t hurt. I’m thrilled to be co-hosting this season with the magnificent and wise journalist, activist, and OG climate legend Bill McKibben. We’ve been having a blast recording the episodes and can’t wait to share them with you. Environmental issues never seem to quite get the attention they deserve when the news covers elections. (UGH.) So! Each week through Election Day, we’ll dive into a new topic with expert guests. We’ll be covering everything from the AI data center boom to Super PACs for clean energy, climate hushing, protecting our public lands, and how to get environmentalists to actually vote. 11.2 MILLION ENVIRONMENTAL VOTERS FAILED TO VOTE IN THE 2024 ELECTION! Not good. If we’re going to get this livable planet thing right we really need to be electing people who get it on climate, and just overall getting way more politically savvy. Subscribe, follow, etc. so you don’t miss an episode. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S4 · E6
August 25 · 51 min
On reciprocity, photosynthesis, and berries 🍓 with Robin Wall Kimmerer
Earlier this month at College of the Atlantic, I was over the moon to speak alongside the one and only Robin Wall Kimmerer, botanist, teacher, Earth lover and legendary author of Braiding Sweetgrass. Our conversation went deeper than I expected — but that’s on me for not having higher expectations! We discussed everything from the value of books in this age of shrinking attention spans, to how to shift our thinking from competition to collaboration (inspired by the mutualism of ecosystems), to the urgency of reciprocity and gift giving. I shared my spicy take on strawberries and we discussed the magic of photosynthesis. Plants. It’s all about plants. It was such a beautiful, spirited morning with Robin. And it was kicked off with the most thoughtful and lovely introduction, by COA student, Madi DuVarney. Want more from Robin? Of course you do. Find her books at your local library, on your friend’s shelf, or order from an indie bookshop. ✨ ANNOUNCEMENT ✨ For Season 5 of this podcast, I'm bringing in a co-host: the magnificent and wise journalist, activist, and climate legend, Bill McKibben. The midterm elections are right around the corner, in 70 days, and if we’re going to get this livable planet thing right we really need to be electing people who get it on climate. Environmental issues never seem to quite get the attention they deserve when the news media is covering about what’s at stake and now to win. So! We, here, are going to get into it. Each week through Election Day, Bill and I will dive into a new topic with expert guests — everything from the AI data center boom to PACs for clean energy to how to get environmentalists to actually vote. As more and more Americans are hit by the impacts of climate change and are more and more motivated to be part of the solutions, let’s make sure they have the info they need. Can you feel my excitement? Are you stoked too? Do us a favor and help spread the word. Tell your people to subscribe. _____ CREDITS: This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity.This episode was produced by Remoy Philip and myself with support from Jenisha Shrestha. Special thanks to Luie Dransfield for the technical side of this recording along with Shawn Keeley from the College of the Atlantic. Alright, Earthlings, I’ll be back in September WITH BILL MCKIBBEN(!) and some piping hot new episodes. In the meantime, do your part and be kind and love this planet. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S4 · E5
May 21 · 1 hr 4 min
What climate leadership looks like in Maine 🌲, with Hannah Pingree
This conversation had an odd effect on me. I found it... relaxing? To hear a politician speaking competently, calmly, clearly, practically and with nuance about climate policy was so soothing, reassuring. More of this please! How can we make things happen when your federal leaders are climate deniers in the pocket of fossil fuel industry? One answer is that state government leaders need to majorly step up. So, today’s conversation with Maine gubernatorial candidate Hannah Pingree is an important one. Hannah Pingree is is a longtime public servant and climate leader from a small island off the midcoast of Maine. I would describe her as a strategic problem-solver. Very importantly, in a fiercely independent “purple” state like Maine, Hannah also has a track record of something very rare in American politics right now: an ability to get things done across all sorts of political divides, including on climate issues. In this conversation, we cover everything from AI data centers, to clean energy, affordability, aquaculture, PFAS (aka forever chemicals), working waterfronts, and the critical role of governors in this era of excruciating federal rollbacks. After hearing this interview, you’ll get why I will be ranking Hannah Pingree #1 on my ballot and why Maine Conservation Voters, the Sierra Club, and — perhaps most notably — the High School Democrats of Maine have endorsed her. This is an especially timely episode because early voting in Maine’s primary election is open NOW! And Election Day is June 9th. So whether you’re a Maine voter yourself, know someone who is, or are just interested in what state-level climate leadership can look like... this one’s for you. Have a listen and send this episode to all the Mainers in your life so they can make a more informed decision. And wherever you live, it’s a perfect time to pick a candidate, roll up your sleeves and help them win. These midterm elections are an ENORMOUS deal. Don’t know where to begin? Check out which candidates Lead Locally and Working Families Party have endorsed, and sign up to phone bank with Environmental Voter Project. Credits: This episode was produced by Remoy Philip and me, with support from Jenisha Shrestha. That’s it! That’s our small but mighty team. Alright, Earthlings, I’m gonna take the summer off from podcasting. And then! I’ll be back in the fall with an election season of the show. For that I’m going to be teaming up with a magnificent and wise and charming co-host. All will be revealed in due time... but get stoked, and stay tuned, and do your part, and be kind, and keep loving this planet. 🩵 Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S4 · E4
May 4 · 59 min
Climate Wayfinding 🧭 with Dr. Katharine Wilkinson
Today’s conversation is a special one. I’m joined by someone who’s been a collaborator and a dear friend in this work: Katharine K. Wilkinson. And tomorrow, May 5th, is publication day for Katharine's new book that’s the culmination of the last 5 years of her work — or perhaps of her lifetime. It’s called Climate Wayfinding: Healing Ourselves and the Planet We Call Home. It’s such an important book because the vast majority of people are concerned about climate change. But a much smaller portion of people are actively engaged in pushing forward solutions. And so much of whether and how we step up and lean in is about our feelings. How do we move from anxiety and dread into something more like, as she puts it, a shimmering purpose? If you have questions about your role in climate solutions — how to move from, as the back cover says “ache to action, from doubt to possibility” — Climate Wayfinding will help you navigate toward answers. Let’s be honest, we all have these questions! So, head on over to your local independent bookstore and and pick up Katherine’s book in all its periwinkle glory, or request it from your local library. Notes: Katharine’s article in TIME Magazine: The Climate Crisis Is a Call to Action. These 5 Steps Helped Me Figure Out How to Be of Use. This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity.This episode was produced by Remoy Philip and myself with support from Jenisha Shrestha. Alright, earthlings. You know the motto: Take climate change seriously, but let’s not take ourselves too seriously. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S4 · E3
April 17 · 29 min
An Ocean Love Story 🐠
In the spirit of the What If We Get It Right? paperback launch, sharing an excerpt of the audiobook. The heart of this audiobook is 20 interviews with people who have shaped my understanding of the answer to the titular question. It’s kind of like a whole season of a podcast packaged up with essays by me and poetry by others. Also, ahem, the audiobook was a finalist for the Audie Award. (If you’re gonna lose, lose to Stephen King.) Order the full audiobook here. The prelude, the first chapter, is “An Ocean Love Story.” It’s about how I fell in love with coral reefs at 5 years old, and how the ripples that flowed from that have shaped the unfurling of my life ever since. This chapter is my origin story, in brief. From Brooklyn, New York, to Key West, Florida, to Washington, DC, and the Caribbean. It's one of the most personal things I’ve ever published. A little funny. A lot honest. It’s the start of my quest to understand how we, humans, can get it as right as possible here on this magnificent planet. And I wouldn’t be surprised if it has similarities with your story, too. ____ CREDITS: This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity. This episode was produced by Remoy Philip and me, Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, with support from Jenisha Shrestha. The original audiobook was produced by Olivia Langen for Penguin Random House audio, recorded at Expanding Sky Studios in Brunswick, Maine. ____ Subscribe to the WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? newsletter. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S4 · E2
April 3 · 34 min
Rewind: That time we made a Climate Variety Show. 🤪
Back in September 2024, on the day my book What If We Get It Right? was published, I did one of the most absurd and delightful things I’ve ever done. I co-hosted an over-the-top goofy Climate Variety Show with actor Jason Sudeikis at the Brooklyn Museum. Sold out crowd. Strong high school talent show energy. And we took the “variety” in variety show seriously – magic, music, hula hoops, comedy, costumes, dance off, and of course many shoutouts to climate solutions. Honestly have trouble believing it actually happened. Total fever dream of a “What if we…?” question. 🧐 As we gear up for the publication of the paperback on April 14th, I’m thinking back on the hardcover launch oh so fondly. So today’s episode is re-run of the very 1st episode of our podcast, which was an audio montage, if you will, of excerpts from that variety show (and enjoy some photos here!). A tiny time machine to revisit the silliness that transpired a year and a half ago. I present to you: ✨The Climate Variety Show.✨ For the visuals to go with it, peep my slideshow (and subscribe to the newsletter while you're there!): https://ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/p/climate-variety-show-slideshow Also! Paperback tour = Climate Dance Parties. If you love the Earth, dance with us. 🌎🕺🏽 Kicking off April 14th — Brooklyn, Monterey, Manhattan, San Diego, Los Angeles, Maine! Snag your tickets here: www.getitright.earth/tour. And while you’re on the crazy internet, pretty please pre-order the paperback from your local bookstore or bookshop.org. 📚 Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S4 · E1
March 13 · 35 min
For the love of nature, culture, and the future 💖 with Dr. Heidi Roop
Hello Earthlings, we are back with a new episode of the What If We Get It Right? podcast. This is the first episode of Season 4, which will be a short season — maybe 6 episodes? Not sure! We’ll see how it goes. Today’s conversation, with Dr. Heidi Roop, was recorded at The Great Northern festival’s Climate Solutions Series in Minneapolis on January 31st. Dr. Roop is an expert in climate science and adaptation. She is the Director of the University of Minnesota Climate Adaptation Partnership. From 2024-2025, she served two presidential administrations as the Assistant Director of Climate Services in the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy. During this time, she also served as Acting Executive Director of the U.S. Global Change Research Program, coordinating research and services across the over fourteen federal agencies and advising the White House on how to effectively manage climate risks. She also wrote a wonderful book, with incredible infographics, called The Climate Action Handbook: A Visual Guide to 100 Climate Solutions for Everyone, which I highly recommend. So... it’s a little odd that she was interviewing me and not the other way around! Yes, this is an unusual episode in that I am the one getting asked the questions. But it was such a wonderful event and conversation that I thought I’d share it to give you all a sense of where my head is at these days. These wild days. Special thanks to The Great Northern and Bell Museum, for hosting this conversation. And a huge shoutout to the good humans of Minneapolis, continuing to hold it down and be truly excellent neighbors and citizens. This episode was produced by Remoy Phillip, and me, Ayana, with support from assistant producer Jenisha Shrestha. This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S3 · E13
Dec 23, 2025 · 34 min
Winning the narrative battle 🎥, with dream hampton
Hello Earthlings! Welcome back to What If We Get It Right? While you and I know that we already have most of the climate solutions we need — it’s more a matter of how quickly and justly we are going to implement them — most people do not know this. And you kinda can’t blame them because most of the news, plus movies and TV and social media, focus on climate problems. This is a massive storytelling challenge. We have a narrative gap, to put it mildly. And so for this special last episode of the season, I had the pleasure of sitting down with award-winning filmmaker and writer dream hampton in front of an audience at Bowdoin College in mid-November. For her whole career, dream has been making art about power and justice, and more recently has been creating works about climate, which, of course, I’ve been thrilled about. Her credentials are deep, as both community organizer and artist. Recently, she was showrunner and executive producer on the Emmy-nominated documentary series Surviving R. Kelly, which earned her a Peabody Award. In 2019, TIME magazine named dream one of the most influential people in the world, and she’s certainly been influencing my thinking in the decade or so I’ve known her. Here, we talk about how to embed climate solutions into popular culture, and the history of how activists (and bad actors) have utilized various storytelling, narrative-setting strategies. As dream put it in her opening remarks: Stories don’t just reflect the world. They create it. They decide who the heroes are, what problems matter and what futures feel possible. So what story is shaping your worldview? What story could you help write? What future do you want for Maine and who stands beside you in that story? How will your generation turn anxiety into action and possibility into progress? We screened dream’s beautiful film Freshwater. It’s a meditative, intimate, quietly devastating piece that uses the language of memory, water, and place to make climate change feel personal. dream narrates, talking us through flooded basements of homes in her home city of Detroit, Michigan. We also played and discussed A Message from the Future with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, which lays out a compelling vision for what the future could look like if the bold promise of a Green New Deal became reality — animated gorgeously by Molly Crabapple. It depicts a future that feels possible and tangible; an imperfect future, but one very much worth fighting for. Watch it below. And as a bonus, watch dream’s explainer of the War on Drugs, narrated by Jay-Z and again illustrated Molly Crabapple — a powerful example of narrative-setting, and a precursor to the GND video that helped establish the form. And that’s a wrap on What If We Get It Right? Season 3! If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help others find us — follow, rate, and review the show. ✅ Send the link of your favorite episode to your favorite group chat, and discuss! 🗣️ Notes: This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity. BIG thanks to Bowdoin College for bringing dream to campus and producing this event, with a special shoutout to Benje Douglas. This episode was produced and edited by Remoy Philip and me, Ayana, with help from associate producer Jenisha Shrestha. If you’re new here, peruse the back catalog. A few dozen hours of sweet podcast conversations with incredible guests await you. ✨ Shoutout: While the WIWGIR podcast goes on break for a few months, we recommend cuing up the latest season of How We Survive, a podcast from Marketplace that will give you new perspective on your holiday meals. Host Amy Scott investigates how the climate crisis is threatening our agricultural systems and how scientists are racing to develop alternatives that will shape the future of food. Plus, check out their free climavore-friendly cookbook. It features recipes from Amy, “The Splendid Table” host Francis Lam, and Samin Nosrat, chef and author of “Salt Fat Acid Heat” and “Good Things.” P.S. dream’s shirt! 🇯🇲 IYKYK Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S3 · E13
Dec 12, 2025 · 1 hr 2 min
Earth is our only shareholder 🌏, with Patagonia CEO Ryan Gellert
What if businesses got creative to unleash funding, political influence, and cultural clout to address our environmental challenges? What if corporations were driven not by maximizing quarterly earnings and shareholder profits, but by being good citizens of planet Earth? There are some companies truly trying to get it right. I happen to be on the board of one of them – the outdoor company Patagonia. I joined the board of directors in 2021, as Patagonia was going through a major transition that resulted in the world having one less billionaire, the founder Yvon Chouinard, and a plan to give away basically all the company’s profits to environmental causes in perpetuity. I thought you might like a peak behind the curtain of all this, so I sat down with the CEO, Ryan Gellert, to dig into the values and practices that have shaped not just Patagonia, but set a high bar across sectors for everything from materials and manufacturing, to worker’s rights and activism, to philanthropy. Now, it’s not a perfect company, certainly, environmentally or otherwise, but it’s a model worth considering. Links/resources for the topics we covered, are all in the newsletter: ayanaelizabeth.substack.com Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S3 · E12
Nov 21, 2025 · 44 min
The Current Politics of Food and Farming 👨‍🌾 with Dave Herring
About a third of our climate problem is caused by agriculture and land use. So, what are we gonna do about it? One key solution is shifting to regenerative agriculture, aka growing food in ways that are actually good for soil and ecosystems and water and air. Our guest this episode is Dave Herring, executive director of Wolfe’s Neck Center for Agriculture and the Environment. It’s is a farm-based education, research, and visitor center set amidst more than 600 acres of conserved open space on the coast of Maine’s Casco Bay. Dave and I talked about helping farmers make the transition to regenerative practices, getting involved in environmental policy, running a farm camp so kids understand how their food is grown, and working to make our food system a part of our climate solutions. CALL TO ACTION: Really think about (and get more curious about) where your food is coming from. And eat more local, more seasonal, more plant-based. If you’re in a position to help others access nutritious food, please do. Our neighbors and food pantries and soup kitchens need our support. Find resources near you 💛: findhelp.org And if you’re inspired by what you heard in this episode, and furious that the Trump administration cancelled their grant to do exceedingly important work, support Wolfe’s Neck Center! 👩🏽‍🌾: wolfesneck.org. Podcast notes: If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help others find us — follow, rate, and review the show. ✅ Text the link of your favorite episode to your favorite group chat, and discuss! 🗣️ This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity. This episode was produced and edited by Remoy Philip and me, Ayana, with help from associate producer Jenisha Shrestha. If you’re new here, peruse the back catalog. A few dozen hours of sweet podcast conversations with incredible guests await you. ✨ Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S3 · E11
Nov 14, 2025 · 1 hr 3 min
How to deal with the heat 🌎🥵 with Jainey Bavishi and Jeff Goodell
Today’s episode is all about HEAT, that climate change bummer from which so many other impacts ripple out. The Earth is hotter now than at any other point in all of human history. From our homes and our jobs, to our policies and culture, how do we adapt? My guests for grappling with all this are Jainey Bavishi and Jeff Goodell. Jainey served as deputy head of NOAA under President Biden, and as head of resiliency for NYC under Mayor de Blasio. Perhaps you remember her from Season 2: “The Future of Coastal Cities.” Jeff is the author of the New York Times bestseller The Heat Will Kill You First: Life and Death on a Scorched Planet. He has also been a climate reporter at Rolling Stone for over two decades. BONUS CONTENT: Head to the newsletter (ayanaelizabeth.substack.com) to watch the hilarious cold open by Brad Einstein with sassy Earth puppet. Follow, rate, review! ✅ Text your favorite episode to your favorite group chat, and discuss! CREDITS: This episode was recorded live at Pioneer Works during Climate Week NYC. This podcast is supported by Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity. Special thanks to Pioneer Works and Wellcome Foundation for hosting this live taping. This episode was produced and edited by Gabby Bulgarelli, and me, Ayana, with help from associate producer Jenisha Shrestha. Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S3 · E10
Nov 7, 2025 · 9 min
How do you convince a room full of influential people to care about climate change… in 6 minutes? 🎤
Last week, I received the TIME Earth Award at the TIME100 Next gala. I worked really hard on my acceptance speech because it was an opportunity to recruit those 100 culture-shaping rising stars to get more involved in climate solutions. We need them! I’m sharing this speech with you in the hopes that hearing the way I speak about climate issues in rooms of power will encourage you to also speak up. Because the truth is that every one of us has a sphere of influence we should be activating. For the transcript, video, and photos head to my newsletter: ayanaelizabeth.substack.com. And while you're there, I'm curious: What would you have said if you had that microphone? Let me know in the comments. Thank you to Future Being for keeping this podcast ad-free, to Remoy Philip for producing this episode, and to assistant producer Jenisha Shrestha. Okay, Earthlings 🌎, that’s it for now. We’ll be back next week with a piping hot new interview episode. Stay tuned… Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S3 · E9
Nov 2, 2025 · 46 min
Climate hushing, fart jokes, and love. 😝 John Marshall on how to market climate action.
For those of us trying to advance climate solutions (go team!), there’s always the question of how to be more impactful, how to bring more people along with us into this work. And often the answer is not fancier technology or more brilliant policy, it’s more compelling communication for recruiting and persuasion. Today’s podcast guest, John Marshall, is an expert in marketing. He spent the first half of his career working with corporations who want to sell us stuff. And now, as founding executive director of the nonprofit Potential Energy, he’s using those same tools to sell climate solutions. So, what messages are most effective? What words should we use or avoid? Who are the best messengers? What’s his advice for me about how to be a better one? And what’s love got to do with it? I learned so much, including that we simply have to talk about climate MORE. So, Earthlings, let’s get into it! John’s CALL TO ACTION 🗣️ Rally your crew, build the team: "Do things, invite people. You invite three people and they invite three people, and that’s how change actually happens. And that’s how we get an acceleration. So do talk about it with somebody. Invite somebody to do something together." Simple, necessary, and something each of us can do more of. To put it in the words of Bill McKibben, sometimes the best thing an individual can do is to stop being such an individual. Podcast notes: If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help others find us — follow, rate, and review the show. ✅ Text the link of your favorite episode to your favorite group chat, and discuss! This podcast is ad-free thanks to the support of Future Being, a grant making and special project studio, which supports the healing of our planet and the safeguarding of biological and cultural diversity. This episode was produced and edited by Gabby Bulgarelli, and me, Ayana, with help from associate producer Jenisha Shrestha. If you’re new here, peruse the back catalog. A few dozen hours of sweet podcast conversations with incredible guests await you. ✨ Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe
S3 · E8
Oct 24, 2025 · 37 min
Presenting — Sabotage: The Splat 🥫🖼️
Almost exactly three years ago (Oct 14, 2022) a couple of climate activists hurled tomato soup at Vincent Van Gogh’s painting “Sunflowers.” It got a whole bunch of press. Do you remember this? Did you ever look into who did it and why? Well, this week on the What If We Get It Right? podcast, we’re gonna get to the bottom of it. I’m sharing the first episode of the climate podcast Sabotage: “The Splat.” Season 1 of this fascinating investigative show, tells the story of the people behind the climate activism group Just Stop Oil. Co-hosted by Alessandra Ram and Samantha Oltman, the show asks: How radical is radical when it comes to climate activism right now? And it all starts with the splat heard round the world — that tomato soup splashing all over the painting’s glass and frame and the wood floor in London’s National Gallery. I hope you enjoy this episode of Sabotage as much as I did. Subscribe! Their season 2 is dropping soon... _____ I’ll be back with a new interview episode next week. In the meantime, my call to action for you: VOTE CLIMATE ✅ Election day in the U.S. is November 4th. For the love of all that is good, please vote. Check details for your polling place and what’s on your local ballot at iwillvote.com. There are so many important local positions and ballot initiatives. Do your research, share useful info with friends & neighbors. And be sure to research the climate platforms of all candidates. Duh. See Lead Locally’s endorsements here. Then, hit the phones ☎️: Phone bank with Environmental Voter Project and Lead Locally. (And listen to Season 1, Episode #2: Vote Climate for my conversation with the founders of those organizations.) Until we as Earth-lovers become a formidable voting block, politicians won’t prioritize climate policy. So GOTMFV! Get full access to WHAT IF WE GET IT RIGHT? at ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/subscribe

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