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Trust and Trade

American Bar Association, Antitrust Law Section

Deep dives into the worlds of competition, privacy, and consumer protection from a rotating panel of experts.

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#64
Monday · 43 min
#64 Music & AI
Is AI-generated music really so different from music created by humans? Kellogg Hansen's Josh Branson and George Mason Law School Professor Olufunmilayo Arewa join host Anant Raut to discuss the copyrightability of AI-generated music and the growing wave of copyright cases brought by artists, publishers, and record companies against generative AI companies. The conversation then takes a more philosophical turn: how have humans created music throughout history? If human music is inspired by what came before, is AI training on the same material and generating its own all that different? And what, if anything, is lost when the machine takes our place in creation? With special guests: Joshua D. Branson, Partner, Kellogg, Hansen, Todd, Figel & Frederick, PLLC and Olufunmilayo B. Arewa, Professor, Antonin Scalia Law School Hosted by: Anant Raut
#63
September 14 · 37 min
#63 The NIL Arms Race
Antitrust birthed the arms race of name, image, and likeness money pouring into Division 1 athletics. Now college football has spiraled into a widening gap between haves and have nots, where NIL offers (supposedly distinct from pay-for-play) are driving athletes who have played professionally to try to return to college to play sports for a fifth year. Professor Michael McCann, professor at Harvard Law School and columnist for Sportico and Sports Illustrated, joins host Anant Raut and guest co-host Courtney Armour to discuss the flow of money into college athletics and what it means for amateurism in college sports. With special guest: Michael McCann, Professor, Franklin Pierce School of Law Hosted by: Anant Raut and Courtney Armour
#62
July 20 · 38 min
#62 Greenwashing
In this 100% carbon-neutral episode of Trust and Trade, we talk about greenwashing, the practice of making claims about a product that make it sound more environmentally friendly than it actually is. Taken too far, such claims are illegal and can result in serious penalties for companies that cross that line. In this sustainably sourced episode, host Anant Raut talks to Nestle Health Science US's Greg Fortsch, consumer protection expert Christie Thompson, Kaelah Smith from the Office of the Connecticut Attorney General, and Lemuel Srolovic from the Office of the New York State Attorney General about recent cases brought by their offices and legal standards for environmental claims. Listen now to our most eco-conscious episode ever! With special guests: Greg Fortsch, Assistant General Counsel for Regulatory Affairs, Nestle Health Science U.S. Christie Thompson, Partner, Kelley Drye & Warren LLP Kaelah Smith, Assistant Attorney General, Environment Section, Connecticut Office of the Attorney General Lemuel Srolovic, Chief, Environmental Protection Bureau, Office of the New York State Attorney General Hosted by: Anant Raut
#61
June 30 · 38 min
#61 Ozzy Osbourne v AEG
In this heavy metal episode of Trust and Trade, we dive into the landmark case of Ozzy Osbourne vs. AEG, exploring how the Prince of Darkness challenged monopolistic practices in concert ticketing. Gwendolyn Lindsay Cooley and Travis Wheeler join host Anant Raut to talk about the evolution in analyzing unlawful tying claims since this historic case, and whether nimbler approaches are possible. All aboard! With special guests: Gwendolyn Lindsay Cooley, Founder, Taimet and Travis Wheeler, Adjunct Professor, University of South Carolina School of Law Hosted by: Anant Raut
#60
June 15 · 35 min
#60 Impact of U.S. Trade Policy on Investment in Canada
When President Trump imposed 25% tariffs on Canada, one of its biggest trading partners, it kicked off a series of back-and-forth tariffs between the two countries. As a result of the ensuing uncertainty, Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney has emphasized the importance of reducing Canada's reliance on the United States as a trading partner, announcing a new trade deal with China during a recent visit to Beijing. Does this signal a shift in the Canada-U.S. trade relationship, and create new opportunities for Chinese companies looking to do business in Canada? Canada's former Chief Trade Negotiator Steve Verheul and Blakes' Brian Facey join host Anant Raut to discuss developments in Canada's trade relationship with the U.S., and how this impacts foreign direct investment in Canada. With special guests: Brian A. Facey, Partner, Blake, Cassels & Graydon LLP and Steve Verheul, Principal, GT & Company Hosted by: Anant Raut
#59
May 25 · 44 min
#59 Mergernomics: Killer Acquisitions
What exactly do we mean by the term "killer acquisitions," and how are those deals analyzed any differently by antitrust enforcers? In this episode, host Anant Raut talks to economist Dr. Ethel Fonseca of RBB Economics and antitrust attorney Danny Mader of Hogan Lovells LLP about how potential "killer acquisitions" get reviewed by competition agencies, using real-world examples such as Sabre/Farelogix, Visa/Plaid, and Facebook/Instagram. They explore the complexities of merger analysis, the nuances of potential competition, and how the same deal can have different outcomes in the US and the UK. With special guests: Dr. Ethel Fonseca, Partner, RBB Economics and Daniel Mader, Senior Associate, Hogan Lovells LLP Hosted by: Anant Raut
#58
April 6 · 20 min
#58 Mergernomics: How Tariffs Redefine Product Markets
How do tariffs redefine product markets? In this episode, economist Dr. Craig Malam and antitrust expert Carla Hine join host Anant Raut to discuss the effect of the Trump Administration's tariff-centric trade policy on how we determine the edges of a product market and what constitutes a substitutable product. Panelists then talk about what economists and defense counsel should take into account when the size and duration of a tariff can change with a social media post. With special guests: Dr. Craig Malam, Partner, Edgeworth Economics and Carla Hine, Weil Gotshal & Manges LLP Hosted by: Anant Raut
#57
March 9 · 45 min
#57 Mergernomics: Extending Market Power
Enforcers and policymakers have raised concerns that dominant firms like Google, Microsoft, NVIDIA, and Meta are extending their market power into AI by taking stakes in some of the most promising startups. In this episode, economist Dr. Elizabeth Wang and antitrust litigator Daniel Culley join me to discuss how economists measure the risk that a dominant firm could acquire its way into dominance in another market, as well as how to spot flaws in those projections. With special guests: Daniel Culley, Partner, Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP and Dr. Elizabeth Wang, Partner and Head of the China Practice, Econic Partners, LLC Hosted by: Anant Raut
#56
February 9 · 39 min
#56 The Resurgence of Private Antitrust Litigation in the Asia Pacific
What's behind the rise of private antitrust litigation in the Asia Pacific? Host Anant Raut talks to experts Kirsten Webb and Toshiaki Tada about the resurgence of follow-on cartel litigation in Japan and abuse of a dominant position cases in Australia. They also discuss the impact of Big Tech litigation, the complexities of proving damages, and the propensity towards settlements. Listen to learn more about how these trends could completely invert global litigation strategy for private plaintiffs! With special guests: Kirsten Webb, Partner, Clayton Utz and Toshiaki Tada, Partner, Hibiya Sogo Law Office Hosted by: Anant Raut
#55
January 26 · 42 min
#55 Foreign Investment in the EU
The rules for foreign investment in Europe are changing. In this episode of Trust and Trade, Bryan Cave LLP's Christine Graham and AmCham EU's Andrew Hill join host Anant Raut to talk about the reasons behind the revisions - protecting critical assets and technologies, a need for uniformity across member states - and walk listeners through the intricate steps of the European legislative process. What do the changes mean, to whom will they apply, and when do they go into effect? Tune in to learn these answers and gain many more insights into the evolving legal framework that will dramatically impact cross-border transactions! With special guests: Christine Graham, Partner, Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner LLP and Andrew Hill, Senior Policy Advisor, AmCham EU Related Links: European Commission factsheet on changes to foreign investment screening, Hosted by: Anant Raut
#54
Dec 22, 2025 · 37 min
#54 Mergernomics: Efficiencies
In this latest episode in our Mergernomics series, we examine how attorneys and economists try to quantify the benefits of a merger, aka "efficiencies." Antitrust expert Brazil's Paula Camara and economist Silvia Faga de Almeida join host Anant Raut to discuss why efficiencies sometimes lower prices and why they sometimes don't, how economists measure them, which ones enforcers will accept and why, and how shifting policy priorities, such as protecting rather than firing employees, has changed what even counts as one. With special guests: Silvia Faga de Almeida, Founding Partner, Ecoa Consultoria Economica and Paula Camara, Partner, Mattos Filho Hosted by: Anant Raut
#53
Nov 24, 2025 · 43 min
#53 Michael Jordan v NASCAR
Why is Michael Jordan's racing team suing NASCAR? MJ's 23XI team and Bob Jenkins' Front Row have been locked in a heated antitrust lawsuit with NASCAR over the charter system at the heart of the Cup Series, with the case set to go to trial on Dec 1, 2025. Brooklyn Law School Professor Jodi Balsam joins host Anant Raut and co-host Sathya Gosselin to talk about the history of NASCAR, the legal issues that remain to be decided, and how this monumental showdown between two of the biggest names in sports, in one of the biggest sports in the country, is likely to end. With special guest: Professor Jodi Balsam, Brooklyn Law School Hosted by: Anant Raut and Sathya Gosselin
#52
Oct 27, 2025 · 39 min
#52 Regulating AI, Ep. 4: South Korea
How is South Korea reshaping AI regulation? In this episode, D&A's Yaera Jeon joins hosts Anant Raut, Rory Macmillan, and Nina Jayne Carroll to unpack South Korea's new AI Framework Act, the first comprehensive national AI regulation in Asia. They talk about its competing policy goals, broad extraterritorial reach, and compliance obligations for high-impact AI systems. They also discuss the government's recent guidance on the Act and whether it weakens the impact of the new regulations. With special guest: Yaera Jeon, Partner, D&A LLC Hosted by: Anant Raut, Rory Macmillan, and Nina Jayne Carroll
#51
Sep 29, 2025 · 46 min
#51 What Makes a Price Illegal?
What makes the price charged by a digital platform illegal? Host Anant Raut talks to antitrust economists Tasneem Chipty and Michael Katz about the legality of high and low prices, cross-platform network effects, and contentious practices like predatory pricing and bundled discounts. Learn how antitrust law looks at MFNs, "free" online services, and two-sided markets in this spellbinding episode! With special guests: Dr. Tasneem Chipty, Founder, Chipty Economics LLC and Dr. Michael Katz, Professor Emeritus, Haas School of Business University of California Berkeley Hosted by: Anant Raut
#50
Sep 1, 2025 · 49 min
#50 Are IP Remedies in Big Tech Cases Going Too Far?
Should Big Tech companies be required to open up their intellectual property when they break the antitrust laws? In this episode of Trust and Trade, experts debate whether requiring Apple to open up its app store restrictions, or Google to license its search data and divest Android, reduce incentives to innovate or are necessary to restore competitive balance. DuckDuckGo's Joe Jerome and economist Keith Waehrer join host Anant Raut and co-host Jennifer Dixton to talk about how far is too far and what's at stake for digital markets. With special guests: Joe Jerome, Senior Public Policy Manager, DuckDuckGo and Dr. Keith Waehrer, Managing Director, Secretariat Hosted by: Anant Raut and Jennifer Dixton
#49
Aug 4, 2025 · 40 min
#49 Regulating AI, Ep. 3: Brazil
How is Brazil shaping AI regulation in the Global South? Our latest episode explores the Brazil AI Act, which if passed would become the first comprehensive federal AI regulation in the world to require AI companies to pay creators for using their work to train their systems. Pinheiro Neto Advogados's Raphael de Cunto joins host Anant Raut and co-hosts Rory Macmillan and Nina Jayne Carroll for a conversation on how Brazil's approach could create a blueprint for global AI regulation, and its implications for innovation and enforcement. With special guest: Raphael de Cunto, Partner, Pinheiro Neto Advogados Hosted by: Anant Raut, Rory Macmillan, and Nina Jayne Carroll
#48
Jun 30, 2025 · 45 min
#48 Regulating AI, Ep. 2: The EU
How will the "Brussels effect" shape AI regulation across the rest of the globe? Europe is once again the first to regulate a new digital market, with the adoption of the AI Act. But was it passed too hastily? N-Square's Caroline De Cock joins host Anant Raut and guest co-hosts Rory Macmillan and Nina Jayne Carroll to discuss what we know the AI Act requires, what remains ambiguous, and the parts that EU enforcers have already begun to reconsider. If you're a practitioner advising clients, or a policymaker considering AI regulation of your own, this episode is truly a must-listen! With special guest: Caroline De Cock, Founder and Managing Partner, N-Square Hosted by: Anant Raut, Rory Macmillan, and Nina Jayne Carroll
#47
Jun 16, 2025 · 37 min
#47 Regulating AI
How are different countries shaping the future of AI? We start a brand-new series on Trust and Trade examining different regulatory approaches to artificial intelligence around the world. In this kickoff episode, experts Viktor Mayer-Schönberger and Anu Bradford debate strong vs light regulatory approaches to AI and explain "the Brussels effect." Will regulating too much/too soon quash innovation? Will regulating too lightly/too late open Pandora's Box? Join this lively conversation hosted by Anant Raut and guest co-hosts Rory Macmillan and Nina Jayne Carroll! With special guests: Anu Bradford, Professor, Columbia Law School and Viktor Mayer-Schonberger, Professor, University of Oxford Hosted by: Anant Raut, Rory Macmillan, and Nina Jayne Carrol
#46
May 26, 2025 · 42 min
#46 Did the Quick Look Test Switch Teams?
Can defendants now wield the "quick look" test to beat antitrust claims? In this episode of Trust and Trade, experts unpack the meaning of Justice Gorsuch's language in the Supreme Court's Alston decision, and debate whether "quick look condemnation" is a game-changer or just rare dicta. Tune in for real-world insights and lively discussion featuring former FTC Commissioner Terry Calvani and Jones Day's Larissa Bergin, moderated by host Anant Raut and guest co-host University of South Carolina School of Law's Prof. Travis Wheeler! With special guests: Hon. Terry Calvani, former Commissioner, Federal Trade Commission and Larissa Bergin, Partner, Jones Day Related Links: NCAA v Alston (2021) Hosted by: Anant Raut and Travis Wheeler
#45
May 12, 2025 · 32 min
#45 Deals Down Under: Foreign Investment in Australia
Thinking about investing in Australia? This episode of Trust and Trade dives into Australia's sweeping new merger control reforms and their impact on foreign investment. Antitrust partner Kirsten Webb and Department of Treasury's (AUS) Annalisa Heger break down the changes, from mandatory filings to faster reviews, and how they interact with existing foreign investment controls. Stay ahead of the curve and learn what these updates mean for global investors! With special guests: Kirsten Webb, Partner, Clayton Utz and Annalisa Heger, Senior Adviser, Department of the Treasury (AUS) Hosted by: Anant Raut

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