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This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler

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Exploring threats to global stability from Ukraine to China to the Middle East with host Gavin Esler – former BBC News presenter, Washington correspondent and host of Newsnight – plus Ukraine-based war reporter Oz Katerji and independent conflict analyst Emma Beals. This Is Not A Drill dives deep into the dangers, corruption, conflicts, disinformation, rivalries and ruthless realpolitik that are making our world ever more dangerous.

Support This Is Not A Drill on Patreon from just £3 per month to get each episode early plus bonus material and exclusive merchandise. From Podmasters, the team behind Oh God, What Now?, Paper Cuts and The Bunker.

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S5 · E163
Thursday · 26 min
Russia’s Drone War on Europe has begun
On August 4th a drone strapped with explosives failed to detonate when it struck a Ukrainian plane at Leipzig Airport. German security services investigating the device pointed the blame at Russia’s GRU. Putin is ramping up his hybrid warfare against NATO allies, including cyber attacks, arson, sabotage and drone incursion. Just how far is he willing to go to test Europe? Gavin Esler talks to Dr Ulrike Franke, senior fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations, about the dangers of Russian drones in NATO airspace and how Europe might counter the threat. • Read Ulrike’s ECFR report ‘Buzzkill: How to defend Europe against drones’ here. • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E162
October 1 · 30 min
The Middle East’s new choke point – How the Houthis could spark a fresh oil crisis
A surge in violence in Yemen has seen Houthi forces seize land on the Red Sea coast – reigniting a war with Saudi Arabia and threatening a further global energy shock. The Iranian-aligned group has increased its foothold in Yemen, now locked in civil war for more than a decade, and launched drone attacks on Saudi oil pipelines. With global trade still reeling from the crisis in the Strait of Hormuz and Saudi Arabia’s allies in America constrained by the ongoing Iran conflict, where next in the latest escalation in the Middle East? Gavin Esler is joined by Dr Elisabeth Kendall, expert on Yemen and the region and Mistress of Girton College, Cambridge. • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Advertisers! Want to reach smart, engaged, influential people with money to spend? (Yes, they do exist). Some 3.5 MILLION people download and watch our podcasts every month – and they love our shows. Why not get YOUR brand in front of our influential listeners with podcast advertising? Contact ads@podmasters.co.uk to find out more. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E161
September 24 · 34 min
Chaos, rare earths and ethnic cleansing – The major conflict you know nothing about
The civil war in Myanmar is Asia’s deadliest ongoing conflict – yet despite violence which has killed more than 100,000 people it rarely dominates international headlines. In today’s episode Oz Katerji talks to Matthew Campbell, reporter at Bloomberg Businessweek, about the drivers of this complex, factionalised war, the battle for the country’s rare natural resources, and the reaction of the international community. Read Matthew Campbell’s Bloomberg article ‘The War the World Forgot’ here. • Find out if you’re owed on car finance at refundclub.co.uk/drill • Refund Club is a trading style of Sandsford Law Limited, authorised and regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA no. 8008114). Checking is free. A fee is payable only if your claim is successful. Eligibility: car finance taken out in the UK between 2007 and 2021. The average claim is around £829 per agreement; this is an average and not a guarantee of the amount you will receive. You can also claim yourself for free by contacting your lender or the Financial Ombudsman Service. refundclub.co.uk/drill • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Oz Katerji. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E160
September 17 · 45 min
New Weapons for New Wars – ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE goes to war
Completing the four-part series from This Is Not A Drill… Warfare is evolving faster than ever in this dangerous world. Gavin Esler explores a new generation of weapons and how they’ll fight – or prevent – the next wars. This time: Artificial Intelligence is reshaping everything and its effects on warfare are already profound. Hyper-fast intelligent systems can bring together drones, conventional missiles, air power and defences – but at the expense of human judgment. Will A.I.-augmented warfare outrun human control and the rules of war? Will the colossal computing power A.I. requires mean that data centres will become crucial assets? And what happens when A.I. misidentifies a civilian building as a military target? Gavin Esler talks to: • Major General (Ret.) Mick Ryan of the Australian Army, author of The War for Ukraine and the Futura Doctrina Substack • Michael Horowitz, Senior Fellow for Technology and Innovation at the Council on Foreign Relations • Dr Neda Bolourchi, non-resident fellow at the Institute for Global Affairs • Dr Jessica Dorsey, assistant Professor of International Law and co-director of Realities of Algorithmic Warfare project at Utrecht University. • Peter Apps, global defense columnist for Reuters, British Army reservist and author of The Next World War Buy books through our affiliate bookshop and you’ll help fund This Is Not A Drill by earning us a small commission for every sale. Bookshop.org’s fees help support independent bookshops too. • ⁠Support us on Patreon⁠ to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. • Find out if you’re owed on car finance at ⁠refundclub.co.uk/drill⁠ • Refund Club is a trading style of Sandsford Law Limited, authorised and regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA no. 8008114). Checking is free. A fee is payable only if your claim is successful. Eligibility: car finance taken out in the UK between 2007 and 2021. The average claim is around £829 per agreement; this is an average and not a guarantee of the amount you will receive. You can also claim yourself for free by contacting your lender or the Financial Ombudsman Service. ⁠refundclub.co.uk/drill Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E159
September 10 · 40 min
New Weapons for New Wars – DEFENCE SYSTEMS get smart
A four-part series from This Is Not A Drill… Warfare is evolving faster than ever in this dangerous world. Gavin Esler explores a new generation of weapons and how they’ll fight – or prevent – the next wars. This time: When missiles and drones become cheaper and more widely-available, air defence becomes top priority. What does it mean when ruinously expensive interceptors like the Patriot go up against swarms of cheap, disposable Shahed drones? Will future wars be decided on who has the deepest pockets and fastest assembly lines? Can you build an Israeli-style Iron Dome over a territory as big as the USA? Which areas get protected? And does it all depend on the speed of the kill chain? Gavin Esler talks to: • Patrycja Bazylczyck, Associate director of the Missile Defence Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) • Michael Horowitz, Senior Fellow for Technology and Innovation at the Council on Foreign Relations • Illya Sekirin, former frontline drone operator for Ukraine and author of Rise of the Machines: Drone Warfare in the Russia-Ukraine War • Peter Apps, global defence columnist for Reuters, British Army reservist and author of The Next World War • Major General (Ret.) Mick Ryan of the Australian Army, author of The War for Ukraine and the Futura Doctrina Substack • Dr Sidharth Kaushal, senior research fellow in the Military Sciences programme at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) Buy books through our affiliate bookshop and you’ll help fund This Is Not A Drill by earning us a small commission for every sale. Bookshop.org’s fees help support independent bookshops too. • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. • Find out if you’re owed on car finance at refundclub.co.uk/drill • Refund Club is a trading style of Sandsford Law Limited, authorised and regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA no. 8008114). Checking is free. A fee is payable only if your claim is successful. Eligibility: car finance taken out in the UK between 2007 and 2021. The average claim is around £829 per agreement; this is an average and not a guarantee of the amount you will receive. You can also claim yourself for free by contacting your lender or the Financial Ombudsman Service. refundclub.co.uk/drill Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E158
September 3 · 35 min
New Weapons for New Wars – MISSILES: The next generation
A new four-part series from This Is Not A Drill… Warfare is evolving faster than ever in this dangerous world. Gavin Esler explores a new generation of weapons and how they’ll fight – or prevent – the next wars. This time: In an age of brutal medium-sized regional conflicts, nuclear deterrence is suddenly less important – and missiles are back. From massively destructive hypersonic weapons to smart cruise-drone hybrids to networked “loitering munitions”, they’re becoming faster, more accurate, and more capable of inflicting atrocities on civilians in indiscriminate hands. And as the Iran and Ukraine Wars prove, they’re far from a guarantee of victory. Gavin Esler talks to: • Dr Sidharth Kaushal, senior research fellow in the Military Sciences programme at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) • Peter Apps, global defense columnist for Reuters, British Army reservist and author of The Next World War Dr Jessica Dorsey, assistant Professor of International Law and co-director of Realities of Algorithmic Warfare at Utrecht University. Buy books through our affiliate bookshop and you’ll help fund This Is Not A Drill by earning us a small commission for every sale. Bookshop.org’s fees help support independent bookshops too. •⁠ Support us on Patreon⁠ to keep This Is Not a Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. • Find out if you’re owed on car finance at ⁠refundclub.co.uk/drill⁠ • Refund Club is a trading style of Sandsford Law Limited, authorised and regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA no. 8008114). Checking is free. A fee is payable only if your claim is successful. Eligibility: car finance taken out in the UK between 2007 and 2021. The average claim is around £829 per agreement; this is an average and not a guarantee of the amount you will receive. You can also claim yourself for free by contacting your lender or the Financial Ombudsman Service. ⁠refundclub.co.uk/drill Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E156
August 27 · 45 min
New Weapons for New Wars – How DRONES change everything
A new four-part series from This Is Not A Drill… Putin thought he could conquer Ukraine with a tank, air and infantry-led attack straight out of the Second World War. Instead Kyiv turned the tables on Russia with the fastest, most intensive transformation of warfare in half a century. In this mini-series Gavin Esler explores this new generation of weapons and how they’ll fight – or prevent – the next wars. This time: cheap, mass-produced drones enabled Kyiv to hit Russia hard and deep. Ukraine is now the world expert in this new technology. What does it mean when you can take out a warship with a weapon that costs less than a family car? What is “precision mass”? And why A.I. will make drones even more powerful. Gavin Esler talks to: • Illya Sekirin, former frontline drone operator for Ukraine and author of Rise of the Machines: Drone Warfare in the Russia-Ukraine War • Michael Horowitz, Senior Fellow for Technology and Innovation at the Council on Foreign Relations • Peter Apps, global defence columnist for Reuters, British Army reservist and author of The Next World War • Major General (Ret.) Mick Ryan of the Australian Army, author of The War for Ukraine and the Futura Doctrina Substack Buy books through our affiliate bookshop and you’ll help fund This Is Not A Drill by earning us a small commission for every sale. Bookshop.org’s fees help support independent bookshops too. •⁠ Support us on Patreon⁠ to keep This Is Not a Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. • Find out if you’re owed on car finance at ⁠refundclub.co.uk/drill⁠ • Refund Club is a trading style of Sandsford Law Limited, authorised and regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA no. 8008114). Checking is free. A fee is payable only if your claim is successful. Eligibility: car finance taken out in the UK between 2007 and 2021. The average claim is around £829 per agreement; this is an average and not a guarantee of the amount you will receive. You can also claim yourself for free by contacting your lender or the Financial Ombudsman Service. ⁠refundclub.co.uk/drill Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E157
August 25 · 3 min
New Weapons for New Wars - trailer
Is everything we knew about warfare changing right before our eyes? The war in Ukraine began with tanks and infantry...and now drones dominate in the battle for dominance. In a brand new four-part series New Weapons for New Wars, we explore what the present and indeed, the future of the battlefield looks like. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E155
August 20 · 29 min
Space, Russia and China – How war is expanding beyond Earth
Space is now an essential part of military planning and operations. Recent reports suggest Russia and China have discussed targeting Starlink satellites, highlighting their increasing importance in conflicts. Are ‘space wars’ no longer science fiction but part of military planning? Joining Gavin Esler to discuss the implications and the dangers of this new potential battleground is Dr Mark Hilborne, senior lecturer in the School of Security Studies at King’s College London. • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not a Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E154
August 13 · 35 min
Putin is running out of soldiers – but that won’t stop him
As Russian casualties mount in brutal frontline assaults on Ukraine, Putin’s recruitment is growing ever more desperate. With international sanctions biting and Ukraine’s own campaigns targeting critical Russian infrastructure - can Putin sustain his war? Can he find the manpower – or can he afford it? To discuss the latest from Russia, Gavin Esler is joined by Dr Nigel Gould-Davies, senior fellow at the International Institute for Strategic Studies. • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E153
August 6 · 31 min
Xi outsmarts Trump – How America’s Iran failure is empowering China
Donald Trump’s failing war on Iran has emboldened China. Beijing is trying to build relationships to counter Washington, as it looks to fill a vacuum in power globally left by the United States as it shifts its geopolitical strategy. Gavin Esler is joined by Ryan Hass, director of the John L. Thornton China Center at Brookings, to discuss how China is trying to capitalise on America’s failings. • Find out if you’re owed on car finance at refundclub.co.uk/drill • Refund Club is a trading style of Sandsford Law Limited, authorised and regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA no. 8008114). Checking is free. A fee is payable only if your claim is successful. Eligibility: car finance taken out in the UK between 2007 and 2021. The average claim is around £829 per agreement; this is an average and not a guarantee of the amount you will receive. You can also claim yourself for free by contacting your lender or the Financial Ombudsman Service. refundclub.co.uk/drill • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E152
July 30 · 26 min
Reign of Tehran – Inside the new Iranian regime
Just days into the Iran conflict, strikes had taken out much of the country’s military leadership. Yet the conflict continues with a new regime installed in Tehran. With the new Supreme Leader Mojtaba Khamenei unseen since the outbreak of war, who is really in charge now? And as peace negotiations continue to stall, what drives Tehran’s decisions? Gavin Esler discusses the latest from Iran with Professor Ali Ansari, founding director of the Institute for Iranian Studies at the University of St Andrews. • Find out if you’re owed on car finance at refundclub.co.uk/drill • Refund Club is a trading style of Sandsford Law Limited, authorised and regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA no. 8008114). Checking is free. A fee is payable only if your claim is successful. Eligibility: car finance taken out in the UK between 2007 and 2021. The average claim is around £829 per agreement; this is an average and not a guarantee of the amount you will receive. You can also claim yourself for free by contacting your lender or the Financial Ombudsman Service. refundclub.co.uk/drill • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E151
July 23 · 27 min
Inside Zelenskyy’s military turmoil
A week of turmoil within Ukraine’s armed forces has seen protestors take to the streets and a chaotic series of changes at the very top of military command. What comes next for the future of Ukraine's defence, after a week of damaging political upheaval? And what does it mean for Zelenskyy’s military strategy? Oz Katerji is joined by Jimmy Rushton, special correspondent at the Kyiv Independent, for the background on a story which has rocked Ukraine and its armed forces as they continue to hold out against the Russian invasion. • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Oz Katerji. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E150
July 16 · 25 min
Is the “True European Army” coming? – Macron, France and the future of European defence
European security is in a state of crisis that would have been hard to imagine when Emmanuel Macron took office as French President in 2017. What happens when a President whose term has been so dominated by the threat of Russia, the fate of NATO and fears for Europe’s independence comes to the end of his term? Fresh from the NATO summit, Macron turned his final Bastille Day into a statement of European unity and resolve – but questions remain over his successor, European rearmament and America’s commitment to NATO. Could the ‘true European Army’ that Macron once posited by the answer? Gavin Esler talks it over with Sophie Pedder, Paris bureau chief at The Economist. • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E149
July 10 · 30 min
Inside the NATO conference – A breakdown from Ankara
As member states gathered for the NATO conference in Ankara this week, leaders faced a series of questions over the future of the security alliance. As President Trump flew into Turkey criticising allies over spending commitments and their support in the Iran conflict, could they rely on the US commitment to NATO any longer? And with Russia’s war on Ukraine ongoing, and the looming threat that Putin may yet test NATO’s resolve by targeting a member state, can allies meet defence budget pledges and defend Europe within a NATO less reliant on America? Oz Katerji hears the latest from the conference halls from Ed Arnold, Senior Associate Fellow, International Security at RUSI, the Royal United Services Institute. • Special offer! Get 20% off any vehicle history check at carvertical.com/drill • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Oz Katerji. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E148
July 2 · 34 min
Expensive Lessons – What America vs Iran taught us about modern warfare
The United States’ war with Iran is a reminder that it’s easier to start a war than to end it. Many other lessons from the conflict are also being analysed right now, from how relatively low-cost weapons change the economics of war, to how even a far-away war can affect all of us in our daily lives. Dr Neda Bolourchi, Middle East historian and nonresident fellow with the Institute for Global Affairs Eurasia Group, joins Gavin Esler to explore some of the ways in which the Iran war is making military strategists, politicians, governments and ultimately the rest of us think very differently about conflict in the 21st century. Read Dr Bolourchi’s article The Hidden Systems of Modern War: Ten Takeways from the Iran War for the Modern War Institute here. • Special offer! Get 20% off any vehicle history check at carvertical.com/drill • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E147
June 25 · 33 min
Ukraine Strikes – Is Russia’s war machine faltering?
Ukrainian drone swarms have hit targets in major Russian cities, while disrupting its military assets and vital oil supplies. Could this be a turning point in the war more than four years after Russia’s full-scale invasion began? Gavin Esler is joined by John Lough, senior research fellow at the New Eurasia Strategies Centre and associate fellow in the Russia Eurasia programme at Chatham House. • Special offer! Get 20% off any vehicle history check at carvertical.com/drill • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E146
June 18 · 34 min
Trump’s Iran deal — Does it reveal a US divide with Israel?
News of the framework for a peace deal between Iran and the United States - if it holds - might be the beginning of the end of a conflict that has unsettled not just the Middle East and the world economy but also Washington’s relationships with its allies. Even if President Trump claims some kind of victory in Iran - with stories about arguments and possible rifts between Trump and Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, how far will the United States and Israel agree on the way forward? Gavin Esler is joined from Washington by Steven Cook, senior fellow for Middle East and African studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S1 · E145
June 11 · 29 min
Germany braces for war – Can rearmament secure Europe?
Germany is rearming as the Russian threat looms over Europe and much of the continent’s security rests on its success. Backed by an emergency ‘Zeitenwende’ fund and an ever-expanding defence budget, Germany is undertaking a profound military transformation with the aim of becoming Europe’s strongest conventional army. What does this mean more broadly? And where do they need to focus? Jörg Lau, foreign policy correspondent at Die Zeit, joins Gavin Esler to discuss how the budget will be spent and the challenges facing Germany – from domestic politics to European unity and the uncertainty over relations with Trump’s US administration. You can buy Jörg Lau’s new book Der Westen Sind Jetzt Wir (in German) here. • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
S5 · E144
June 4 · 23 min
Xi and Putin – What do they really want from each other?
Beyond the pomp and pageantry of Vladimir Putin’s Beijing summit with Xi Jinping, what do Russia and China need from each other? And how strong is their relationship? Plus, coming hot on the heels of Donald Trump’s own Beijing visit, what does it mean for the geopolitical balance in an era of great power competition? Gavin Esler joins Joseph Webster, senior fellow at the Atlantic Council and editor of the independent China-Russia Report to discuss. • Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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