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Third Space Podcast

Paul Fahey

In the Third Space we will discuss the good and the ugly in the Church. We will live in the grey—avoiding easy answers and black and white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true.

www.catholicthirdspace.com
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  • 21 episodes
  • Avg 1 hr 18 min
  • English
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  • September 15 · 1 hr 4 min

    Live with Paul & Timothy - Clericalism, just don't do it

    It was so good to have this live conversation with Timothy Quigley! This sort-of-impromptu video came from Timothy and I watching and discussing a couple of recent videos of Dominican priests ‘splaining about things they have no understanding of. The priests were exhibiting distilled clericalism, but the problem of clericalism in the Church extends far beyond our east coast friends in white habits. Sources cited: 2024 Final Synod Documenthttps://www.synod.va/content/dam/synod/news/2024-10-26_final-document/ENG---Documento-finale.pdf Final Report, Study Group 5: The Participation of Women in the Life and Leadership on the Churchhttps://www.synod.va/content/dam/synod/process/implementation/10workinggroups/final-reports/sg5/SG-5_ENG_Final-Report.pdf Magnifica Humanitashttps://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/encyclicals/documents/20260515-magnifica-humanitas.html La croix article https://www.la-croix.com/religion/abus-spirituels-d-anciens-membres-de-communautes-demandent-au-pape-des-reponses-fortes-20260907 Dilexi Tehttps://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/apost_exhortations/documents/20251004-dilexi-te.html Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • September 14 · 1 hr 56 min

    47: Aimee Murphy - Magnificent Humanity

    Today we’re kicking off Season Three! And we’re starting with something a little different. Earlier this month I was a part of a panel discussion with Aimee Murphy about Pope Leo’s encyclical, Magnifica Humanitas. The panel was for a young adult group in my new diocese. And I’m excited to share it with you all here! I’ve been following Aimee and her work for over a decade now and have tremendous respect for her integrity living out a consistent life ethic. I interviewed her four years ago, during the second season of the Pope Francis Generation podcast, about her book: Rehumanize: A Vision to Secure Human Rights for All. It was a huge honor to present next to her on this panel. I also want to thank Hunter for putting this event together and St. Monica’s parish in Kalamazoo, MI for hosting. Two quick things before we jump into the episode. First, if you like this discussion about Magnifica Humanitas and want to dive in more, I’m leading an online study group through October that will spend four weeks discussing this magnificent encyclical. Check out https://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/magnifica-humanitas-study-group for more details. Also, if you want me to come out to your parish to give a presentation or day-long conference about Catholic Social Teaching, Conscience, or spiritual abuse, I’d love to see you! You can also find more info about that at https://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/i-can-present-in-person-too Aimee Murphy is an author, speaker, and creator whose life itself exists at the intersection of communities often pitted against each other. Thus, she seeks to build bridges, breathe love and compassion into the tension, and draw people together across divides. She is the founder of the Consistent Life Ethic nonprofit Rehumanize International, a full-time caregiver for the first "snowflake baby" she and her husband adopted, and a soon-to-be-certified birth doula. LINKS: Pope Francis Generation interview with Aimee Murphy - A Consistent Life Ethichttps://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/interview-with-aimee-murphy-a-consistent Magnifica Humanitas Study Grouphttps://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/magnifica-humanitas-study-group Magnifica Humanitashttps://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/encyclicals/documents/20260515-magnifica-humanitas.html Have me out to speak at your parishhttps://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/i-can-present-in-person-too ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true. SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. www.catholicthirdspace.com LIVING SOLIDARITY: Living Solidarity upholds the infinite dignity of every person by addressing the reality of spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Catholic Church. Living Solidarity helps to build a Church of integrity and solidarity by accompanying survivors of spiritual abuse with trauma-informed life coaching; equipping Church leaders and institutions to confront systemic harm; and creating resources grounded in psychological research and the Church’s Social Teaching. Visit livingsolidarity.com to learn more, to connect with Paul, to schedule individual life coaching, or to invite Paul to speak or consult with your community, parish, seminary, or diocese. ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey is currently a professional counselor, retreat leader, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He provides counseling for those who have been spiritually abused and creates resources for Church leaders to better safeguard their communities against all forms of abuse. He previously worked for eight years as the Director of Religious Education at a Catholic parish. Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife, Kristina, and their five kids. Third Space is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • August 24 · 1 hr 7 min

    46: Brad Jersak - Faith after Deconstruction

    Through the summer I’m reposting throwback episodes, and today I’m resharing an episode from my old podcast, Pope Francis Generation, where Dominic and I spoke with Brad Jersak. Brad Jersak is the Dean of Theology & Culture at St. Stephen’s University in New Brunswick, Canada, and editor in chief of Clarion-Journal.com. He is also the author or coauthor of a number of nonfiction and fiction books, including the More Christlike series. I first came across Brad’s work several years ago when a friend shared a video of his talk “The Gospel in Chairs.” I’ve watched it dozens of times since then and am still sharing it with others. It is one of the most compelling proclamations of the kerygma that I’ve ever heard. Then a few years ago I read Brad’s book, “Out of the Embers: Faith After the Great Deconstruction.” The book was healing for me and helped me navigate my own struggles trying to exist in a Church that has harmed me and people I care about. It’s a book I’ve returned to often in my conversations with folks who are going through deconstruction or have been spiritually abused. In this conversation, we talk about this book and discuss what it looks like to follow Jesus in the midst of suffering and trauma, even when the harm is coming from the Church. I’m excited to share it with you again! Two quick announcements before we jump into the episode! First, Sarah Carter (from Pope Leo Weekly and Recovering Catholic) and I are doing a new project together, The Leo Seminar: a space where people could read Pope Leo’s actual words, in community, without an ideological agenda. Sarah and I believe that striving for integrity is more important than having the right answers; dialogue and curiosity are more important than ideological purity; unity in diversity is more important than uniformity; “truth is not a territory to be defended, but a good to be shared” (Magnifica Humanitas 25); and “realities are greater than ideas” (Evangelii Gaudium231). The Leo Seminar exists for anyone who wants to step into a process of collective study and discernment instead of consuming “hot takes.” In this seminar, you will spend twelve weeks digging into primary texts, guided discussion, and honestly wrestling with what Pope Leo is actually saying and where he’s leading the Church. You won’t leave with a verdict handed to you, but you’ll have the opportunity to form your own conclusions in a community of people who take the questions as seriously as you do. People who are willing to undertake this kind of slow and serious formation will be agents of renewal in the Church, more equipped to proclaim the Gospel in the modern world. The Leo Seminar is a small group online seminar starting on Friday, September 4 at 12:00 (ET). The group will meet every week for 90 minutes, for 12 consecutive weeks. Sarah and Paul will lead each discussion, and we will have occasional special guests, including Pope Leo’s biographer, Elise Ann Allen! Registration closes this Friday. For more details, visit catholicthirdspace.com Also, registration is still open for my next round of spiritual abuse workshops. This is an online workshop focused on recognizing, preventing, and responding to spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. This workshop is for: * Individuals trying to better understand their experiences of spiritual abuse in the Church * Clergy and lay leaders interested in safeguarding their communities from spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience * Therapists or spiritual directors working with clients who have been spiritually abused This workshop will help you: * Recognize and prevent spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Church * Know the symptoms of spiritual abuse, religious trauma, and moral injury * Better understand and respond to abusive systems in the Church This is a live online workshop that meets in a small group over the course of five weeks. The workshops begin next week, so sign up now! Visit catholicthirdspace.com for more details. LINKS: The Leo Seminarhttps://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/enrollment-is-open-for-the-leo-seminar Spiritual Abuse Workshophttps://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/spiritual-abuse-workshop-34d Out of the Embers: Faith After the Great Deconstructionhttps://www.amazon.com/Out-Embers-Faith-After-Deconstruction/dp/1641238887 The Gospel in Chairshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_aALyEKh_A Brad’s Substackhttps://bradleyjersak124315.substack.com/ ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true. SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. www.catholicthirdspace.com LIVING SOLIDARITY: Living Solidarity upholds the infinite dignity of every person by addressing the reality of spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Catholic Church. Living Solidarity helps to build a Church of integrity and solidarity by accompanying survivors of spiritual abuse with trauma-informed life coaching; equipping Church leaders and institutions to confront systemic harm; and creating resources grounded in psychological research and the Church’s Social Teaching. Visit livingsolidarity.com to learn more, to connect with Paul, to schedule individual life coaching, or to invite Paul to speak or consult with your community, parish, seminary, or diocese. ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey is currently a professional counselor, retreat leader, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He provides counseling for those who have been spiritually abused and creates resources for Church leaders to better safeguard their communities against all forms of abuse. He previously worked for eight years as the Director of Religious Education at a Catholic parish. Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife, Kristina, and their five kids. Third Space is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • August 10 · 1 hr 30 min

    45: Cultivating a Gospel Response to Trauma

    Through the summer I’m reposting throwback episodes, and today, I wanted to reshare a panel discussion I was a part of nearly two years ago about how the Church can be more trauma informed. Back in 2024 I was invited to be a speaker for a Courageous Conversation event hosted by Awake, A Catholic non-profit whose mission “is to awaken our community to the full reality of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church, work for transformation, and foster healing for all who have been wounded.” Courageous Conversations is thier online speaker series designed to “build community, deepen understanding, encourage conversation, and inspire personal action in response to the complex issue of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church.” The topic of this conversation was titled “Cultivating a Gospel Response to Trauma” and was about how to foster trauma-informed church communities and spaces “that are sensitive to the needs of survivors of sexual abuse by Catholic leaders.” I was humbled and honored to be asked to participate in this event. Especially alongside the late Pete Singer, from the organization GRACE (Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment), and the author of the excellent article: Toward a More Trauma-Informed Church: Equipping Faith Communities to Prevent and Respond to Abuse. Making the Church more trauma-informed is not only important in our pastoral care and evangelization efforts, but I believe having a preferential option for survivors of trauma is an essential aspect of our identity as Christians. I’m excited to share it with you again! Also, I just opened up registration for my next round of spiritual abuse workshops. This is an online workshop focused on recognizing, preventing, and responding to spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. This workshop is for: * Individuals trying to better understand their experiences of spiritual abuse in the Church * Clergy and lay leaders interested in safeguarding their communities from spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience * Therapists or spiritual directors working with clients who have been spiritually abused This workshop will help you: * Recognize and prevent spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Church * Know the symptoms of spiritual abuse, religious trauma, and moral injury * Better understand and respond to abusive systems in the Church This is a live online workshop that meets in a small group over the course of five weeks, beginning in September. Click here for more information: https://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/spiritual-abuse-workshop-34d LINKS: Give to Awakehttps://www.awakecommunity.org/donate Courageous Conversations Videohttps://www.awakecommunity.org/blog/courageous-conversation-makes-the-case-for-working-toward-a-trauma-sensitive-church Toward a More Trauma-Informed Church: Equipping Faith Communities to Prevent and Respond to Abusehttps://currentsjournal.org/index.php/currents/article/view/444 Spiritual Abuse Workshophttps://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/spiritual-abuse-workshop-34d ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true. SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. www.catholicthirdspace.com LIVING SOLIDARITY: Living Solidarity upholds the infinite dignity of every person by addressing the reality of spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Catholic Church. Living Solidarity helps to build a Church of integrity and solidarity by accompanying survivors of spiritual abuse with trauma-informed life coaching; equipping Church leaders and institutions to confront systemic harm; and creating resources grounded in psychological research and the Church’s Social Teaching. Visit livingsolidarity.com to learn more, to connect with Paul, to schedule individual life coaching, or to invite Paul to speak or consult with your community, parish, seminary, or diocese. ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey is currently a professional counselor, retreat leader, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He provides counseling for those who have been spiritually abused and creates resources for Church leaders to better safeguard their communities against all forms of abuse. He previously worked for eight years as the Director of Religious Education at a Catholic parish. Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife, Kristina, and their five kids. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • July 29 · 45 min

    About The Leo Seminar

    Sarah and I wanted to take a few minutes to talk about The Leo Seminar and why we’re starting this new project. Here are some of the details: The Leo Seminar The Leo Seminar is a small group online seminar starting on Friday, September 4 at 12:00 (ET). The group will meet every week for 90 minutes, for 12 consecutive weeks. Sarah and Paul will lead each discussion, and we will have occasional special guests, including Pope Leo’s biographer, Elise Ann Allen! Who The Leo Seminar for: * Catechists * Teachers * Clergy * Parents * Catholics * Non-Catholics * Anyone who wants to better understand the mind and teaching of our new pope What we’ll be reading together: * Pope Leo XIV: The Biography by Elise Ann Allen * Evangelii Gaudium by Pope Francis (programmatic document that has set the stage for Leo’s pontificate) * Magnifica Humanitas (On artificial intelligence) * Dilexi Te (On love for the poor) * In Unitate Fidei (On Christian unity) * Other selected homilies and addresses form Pope Leo What you’ll get when you enroll: * A copy of Pope Leo XIV: The Biography by Elise Ann Allen sent directly to your mailing address * A 60-minute, live, “closed-door” Q&A with the first and only person to be granted an exclusive interview with Pope Leo XIV, Elise Ann Allen * The Leo Seminar Reader, a digital reading packet designed for ease of use and note taking * Twelve 90-minute sessions, with in-depth analysis and discussion * A community to study and discuss with, and opportunities to stay connected after the seminar ends When we’ll meet: * Every Friday from September 4 - November 20 * All meetings from 12:00-1:30 p.m. ET Cost: * $1,200 (with options to pay in installments via Stripe) Thanks for reading Third Space! This post is public so feel free to share it. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • July 27 · 1 hr 8 min

    44: Laura Vander Vos - Trad Recovery

    Through the summer I’m reposting throwback episodes, and today I’m resharing an episode from November 2024 with Laura Vander Vos from Trad Recovery. I wanted to re-share this conversation because of the SSPX being in the news this past month. Laura and I talked about the real harm that so many people have experienced within Catholic Traditionalism and the work that TradRecovery is doing to help. I’m excited to share it with you again! Also, I just opened up registration for my next round of spiritual abuse workshops. This is an online workshop focused on recognizing, preventing, and responding to spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. This workshop is for: * Individuals trying to better understand their experiences of spiritual abuse in the Church * Clergy and lay leaders interested in safeguarding their communities from spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience * Therapists or spiritual directors working with clients who have been spiritually abused This workshop will help you: * Recognize and prevent spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Church * Know the symptoms of spiritual abuse, religious trauma, and moral injury * Better understand and respond to abusive systems in the Church This is a live online workshop that meets in a small group over the course of five weeks, beginning in September. Visit for here more details: https://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/spiritual-abuse-workshop-34d Laura is a homeschooled wife and mother, who hails from Montana. She has a background in sacred music and is a self-published author. Laura operates the MissHappyCatholic youtube channel and co-founded the TradRecovery apostolate in 2023. LINKS: TradRecoveryhttps://www.tradrecovery.com Spiritual Abuse Workshophttps://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/spiritual-abuse-workshop-34d ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true. SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. www.catholicthirdspace.com LIVING SOLIDARITY: Living Solidarity upholds the infinite dignity of every person by addressing the reality of spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Catholic Church. Living Solidarity helps to build a Church of integrity and solidarity by accompanying survivors of spiritual abuse with trauma-informed life coaching; equipping Church leaders and institutions to confront systemic harm; and creating resources grounded in psychological research and the Church’s Social Teaching. Visit livingsolidarity.com to learn more, to connect with Paul, to schedule individual life coaching, or to invite Paul to speak or consult with your community, parish, seminary, or diocese. ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey is currently a professional counselor, retreat leader, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He provides counseling for those who have been spiritually abused and creates resources for Church leaders to better safeguard their communities against all forms of abuse. He previously worked for eight years as the Director of Religious Education at a Catholic parish. Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife, Kristina, and their five kids. Thanks for reading Third Space! This post is public so feel free to share it. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • July 13 · 1 hr 12 min

    43: Fr. Chris Kellerman SJ - Slavery and the Catholic Church

    Today I’m resharing an episode from November 2024 with Fr. Chris Kellerman. I wanted to re-share this conversation because of how relevant it is to Pope Leo’s new encyclical, Magnifica Humanitas. In Paragraph 176 of that encyclical, the pope said: “In the development of her doctrine, the Church has gradually come to a deeper awareness of the gravity of these issues. It is true that past events cannot be judged anachronistically, as though the moral criteria that matured over time had always been available. Yet neither can we deny or diminish the delay with which both society and the Church came to denounce the scourge of slavery. In antiquity and the Middle Ages many individuals and even ecclesiastical institutions had slaves. Already in the early modern period, the Apostolic See of Rome, responding to requests from Sovereigns, intervened several times in order to regulate and legitimize forms of subjugation, and, in certain cases, the enslavement of ‘infidels.’ [174] It was only in the nineteenth century that a formal, absolute and universal condemnation of slavery was clearly articulated, notably under Pope Leo XIII. [175] This development offers a clear example of the Church’s growth in understanding the perennial truths of Revelation that she safeguards. Although there was not always consistency in practice — given that slavery was long tolerated before being unequivocally condemned — there has been a continuous affirmation throughout history of the dignity of every human being, created in the image of God, even if it took eighteen centuries for its full incompatibility with slavery to be explicitly recognized. This constitutes a wound in Christian memory, one from which we cannot consider ourselves detached. [176] It is impossible not to feel deep sorrow when contemplating the immense suffering and humiliation endured by so many in stark contrast to their immeasurable dignity as persons infinitely loved by the Lord. For this, in the name of the Church, I sincerely ask for pardon.” It’s hard to overstate how significant this paragraph is. It feels meaningful that it’s the first American pope, himself a descendant of enslaved persons and of people who owned slaves, who is unequivocally apologizing for the Church’s horrific historical complicity in slavery. This stands in contrast to his namesake, Leo XII, who penned a revisionist history when he condemned slavery in 1888. Also, this paragraph is, to my knowledge, the most authoritative magisterial teaching to date that states that doctrine can, and has, developed to the point of apparent reversal. Further, Pope Leo also indicates that the Church delaying development can be profoundly unjust. And all of this connects to my conversation nearly two years ago with Fr. Chris Kellerman SJ about his book, “All Oppression Shall Cease: A History of Slavery, Abolitionism, and the Catholic Church.” In that conversation he presented a brief history of the Church’s involvement with, and teachings about, slavery. Fr. Chris also responded to still repeated misconceptions and revisionist histories about the Church’s participation in the slave trade. Finally, we talked about how this relates to the priest abuse crisis and how confronting the evils in the Church impacts our own faith. I’m excited to share it with you again! Also, I apologize for the audio quality of this episode, I didn’t realize I was using the wrong microphone until after the recording was over. Fr. Chris Kellerman, SJ, is Secretary of Justice and Ecology for the Jesuit Conference of Canada and the United States in Washington, D.C, where he oversees the U.S. government relations and legislative advocacy operations of the Jesuits. Originally from Arlington, TX, he studied at Texas Tech University, the University of Dallas, and Regis College at the University of Toronto. He is the author of All Oppression Shall Cease: A History of Slavery, Abolitionism, and the Catholic Church. LINKS: All Oppression Shall Cease : A History of Slavery, Abolitionism, and the Catholic Church https://orbisbooks.com/products/all-opression-shall-cease-a-history-of-slavery-abolitionism-and-the-catholic-church Alessandra Harris - The Truth about the Catholic Church & Slavery with Chris Kellerman, SJ https://youtu.be/W2yRqU-B1oY Navigating growth and development in a living tradition https://wherepeteris.com/navigating-growth-and-development-in-a-living-tradition/ ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true. SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. www.catholicthirdspace.com LIVING SOLIDARITY: Living Solidarity upholds the infinite dignity of every person by addressing the reality of spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Catholic Church. Living Solidarity helps to build a Church of integrity and solidarity by accompanying survivors of spiritual abuse with trauma-informed life coaching; equipping Church leaders and institutions to confront systemic harm; and creating resources grounded in psychological research and the Church’s Social Teaching. Visit livingsolidarity.com to learn more, to connect with Paul, to schedule individual life coaching, or to invite Paul to speak or consult with your community, parish, seminary, or diocese. ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey is currently a professional counselor, retreat leader, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He provides counseling for those who have been spiritually abused and creates resources for Church leaders to better safeguard their communities against all forms of abuse. He previously worked for eight years as the Director of Religious Education at a Catholic parish. Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife, Kristina, and their five kids. Third Space is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • June 29 · 1 hr 15 min

    42: Marcus Mescher - Preferential Option for Survivors

    Today I’m resharing the second of a two-part series from the first season of Third Space. This is a conversation I had with Dr. Marcus Mescher about liberation theology and what it means to have a preferential option for survivors. I think what Marcus presents here can help us understand some of Pope Leo’s background and vision for the Church. Also, I wanted to share that I have a new self-paced online course about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. This course will help you recognize spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church; know the symptoms of spiritual abuse, religious trauma, and moral injury; and better identify spiritually abusive systems. The course includes access to a private online community where you can connect and share resources with others who have gone through this course. Check out the course here: https://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/new-self-paced-online-course-about This is Part Two of a two-part conversation with Dr. Marcus Mescher. In the first part of the conversation we discussed Liberation Theology, its origins, development, and relationship with the universal Church. We also spent time reflecting on the life and work of the Dominican theologian, Gustavo Gutiérrez. In Part-Two, we dive into the Church’s teaching on the preferential option for the poor, exploring its roots in Scripture as well as its relationship to the Ordo Amoris. From there we discuss the importance of the Church having a “preferential option for survivors” and what living that out could look like on an institutional and personal level. I really loved this conversation and I hope you enjoy it as well. Dr. Marcus Mescher is associate professor of Christian ethics. He holds a Ph.D. from Boston College and specializes in Catholic social teaching and moral formation. His research and writing concentrate in the following areas: human dignity and rights; social/environmental justice for the global common good; how moral agency is impacted by cultural context and digital technology; the moral dimensions of friendship; sexual justice and the ethics of marriage and family life; liberation theology and inclusive solidarity; healing the psychological, spiritual, social, and moral harm caused by clergy abuse. Dr. Mescher has written dozens of popular and academic articles. His current research and writing focus on mental health and moral injury. If you haven’t listened to Part One, I would encourage you to start with that episode. LINKS: Measuring & Exploring Moral Injury Caused by Clergy Sexual Abusehttps://www.xavier.edu/moral-injury-report/ “Moral Injury and Clerical Sexual Abuse” PFG podcast with Marcus Mescherhttps://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/marcus-mescher-moral-injury-and-clerical The Liberation Theology Podcasthttps://open.spotify.com/episode/7rloQVzrrwM3WSp2OxRviY?si=04fe4a3646a9441b Accountability, Healing, and Trust: Interdisciplinary Reflections for Ministry in the Midst of the Catholic Sex Abuse Crisishttps://litpress.org/Products/8897/Accountability-Healing-and-Trust Awake Bloghttps://www.awakecommunity.org/blog ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true. SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. www.catholicthirdspace.com LIVING SOLIDARITY: Living Solidarity upholds the infinite dignity of every person by addressing the reality of spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Catholic Church. Living Solidarity helps to build a Church of integrity and solidarity by accompanying survivors of spiritual abuse with trauma-informed life coaching; equipping Church leaders and institutions to confront systemic harm; and creating resources grounded in psychological research and the Church’s Social Teaching. Visit livingsolidarity.com to learn more, to connect with Paul, to schedule individual life coaching, or to invite Paul to speak or consult with your community, parish, seminary, or diocese. ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey is currently a professional counselor, retreat leader, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He provides counseling for those who have been spiritually abused and creates resources for Church leaders to better safeguard their communities against all forms of abuse. He previously worked for eight years as the Director of Religious Education at a Catholic parish. Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife, Kristina, and their five kids. Third Space is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • June 15 · 1 hr 15 min

    41: Marcus Mescher - Liberation Theology

    Today I’m resharing the first of a two-part series from the first season of Third Space. This is a conversation I had with Dr. Marcus Mescher about liberation theology and what it means to have a preferential option for survivors. I think what Marcus presents here can help us understand some of Pope Leo’s background and vision for the Church. Also, I wanted to share that I have a new self-paced online course about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. This course will help you recognize spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church; know the symptoms of spiritual abuse, religious trauma, and moral injury; and better identify spiritually abusive systems. The course includes access to a private online community where you can connect and share resources with others who have gone through this course. Check out the course here: https://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/new-self-paced-online-course-about This is Part One of a two-part conversation with Dr. Marcus Mescher. In the first part of the conversation we discuss Liberation Theology, its origins, development, and relationship with the universal Church. We also spend time reflecting on the life and work of the Dominican theologian, Gustavo Gutiérrez. In Part-Two, we will dive into the Church’s teaching on the preferential options for the poor, exploring its roots in Scripture as well as its relationship to the Ordo Amoris. From there we discussed the importance of the Church having a “preferential options for survivors” and what living that out could look like on an institutional and personal level. I really loved this conversation and I hope you enjoy it as well. Dr. Marcus Mescher is associate professor of Christian ethics. He holds a Ph.D. from Boston College and specializes in Catholic social teaching and moral formation. His research and writing concentrate in the following areas: human dignity and rights; social/environmental justice for the global common good; how moral agency is impacted by cultural context and digital technology; the moral dimensions of friendship; sexual justice and the ethics of marriage and family life; liberation theology and inclusive solidarity; healing the psychological, spiritual, social, and moral harm caused by clergy abuse. Dr. Mescher has written dozens of popular and academic articles. His current research and writing focus on mental health and moral injury. LINKS: Measuring & Exploring Moral Injury Caused by Clergy Sexual Abusehttps://www.xavier.edu/moral-injury-report/ “Moral Injury and Clerical Sexual Abuse” PFG podcast with Marcus Mescherhttps://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/marcus-mescher-moral-injury-and-clerical The Liberation Theology Podcasthttps://open.spotify.com/episode/7rloQVzrrwM3WSp2OxRviY?si=04fe4a3646a9441b Accountability, Healing, and Trust: Interdisciplinary Reflections for Ministry in the Midst of the Catholic Sex Abuse Crisishttps://litpress.org/Products/8897/Accountability-Healing-and-Trust Awake Bloghttps://www.awakecommunity.org/blog ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true. SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. www.catholicthirdspace.com LIVING SOLIDARITY: Living Solidarity upholds the infinite dignity of every person by addressing the reality of spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Catholic Church. Living Solidarity helps to build a Church of integrity and solidarity by accompanying survivors of spiritual abuse with trauma-informed life coaching; equipping Church leaders and institutions to confront systemic harm; and creating resources grounded in psychological research and the Church’s Social Teaching. Visit livingsolidarity.com to learn more, to connect with Paul, to schedule individual life coaching, or to invite Paul to speak or consult with your community, parish, seminary, or diocese. ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey is currently a professional counselor, retreat leader, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He provides counseling for those who have been spiritually abused and creates resources for Church leaders to better safeguard their communities against all forms of abuse. He previously worked for eight years as the Director of Religious Education at a Catholic parish. Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife, Kristina, and their five kids. Third Space is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • June 11 · 1 hr 3 min

    Leo Live 5!

    It was a lot of fun last night talking with Sarah Carter and Ricardo Simmonds about Pope Leo’s new encyclical on safeguarding humanity during the age of AI, Magnifica Humanitas. We discussed why we think the encyclical is getting as much attention as it’s getting, if technology is neutral, what is means for the Church to dialogue with the world, and more! Sarah and I hope to keep hosting these live discussions. Pope Leo is still working his way through his weekly catechesis on Sacrosanctum Concilium. Which we hope to devote the next Leo Live to once it’s all released. So keep an eye out! Go ahead and follow Ricardo at Galileo's Ghost where he discusses “science, cosmology and its relationship to ecology, technology, policy, economics, politics, history, religion and culture.” Become a paid subscriber to Third Space here: https://www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe Subscribe to Pope Leo Weekly here: https://popeleoweekly.substack.com/subscribe “Humanity, created by God in all its grandeur, is today facing a pivotal choice: either to construct a new Tower of Babel or to build the city in which God and humanity dwell together. Each generation inherits the task of shaping its own era, of guiding history to become a place where the dignity of every person is safeguarded, justice is promoted and fraternity is made possible. Yet every era also runs the risk of creating an inhumane and more unjust world. Whenever humanity is in danger of marring its true identity, we Christians lift our eyes to the Incarnate God, knowing that it is “only in the mystery of the Word made flesh that the mystery of humanity truly becomes clear.” In Jesus Christ, this humanity in its grandeur becomes the Way, the Truth and the Life, opening the path for each of us to grow toward fullness.” Pope Leo XIV, Magnifica Humanitas Third Space is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • June 1 · 1 hr 17 min

    40: Esther Harber - Closest to the Heart of Jesus

    Today I’m resharing an episode from February of 2025, in the first season of Third Space. This is a conversation I had with Esther Harber. Esther Harber is a devoted Catholic living with her husband and daughters in Ohio. She is a convert from a fundamentalist Protestant denomination, and was blessed to enter the Catholic Church in 2006. The Lord placed a passion in her heart for sharing the faith, and she spent the better part of her twenties as a lay missionary in New York City. She was also in religious life for a year. During her time as a missionary she experienced spiritual abuse, grooming, and sexual assault by a Catholic priest. After a long period of healing, she felt the Lord calling her to walk with other victim-survivors and to bring light to this crisis in the Church. In this discussion Esther shares her own story and how her experiences of harm have impacted her faith. Esther has maybe the biggest heart of anyone I’ve ever met. And her capacity to be present with others and hold their stories is profound. This is one of my favorite interviews. Since this conversation was first published, Esther stepped away from her role as the Survivor Care Coordinator at Awake. Also, a few months ago, Esther was a speaker for one of Awake’s “Courageous Conversations.” She spoke about the harm caused by institutional betrayal from the Church. I’m linking to that in the show notes and would encourage you to listen to it as well. And just a content note that this episode includes conversations about sexual assault. Also, a huge thank you to everyone who became a financial supporter of Third Space over the past month. It means so much! Thank you. LINKS: Awake Courageous Conversation - Not Just a Few Bad Apples: The Trauma of Institutional Betrayal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICYqxT3zhWg&t=4s Esther’s Survivor Story: https://www.awakecommunity.org/blog/esther-harber/ Contact Awake: https://www.awakecommunity.org/contact ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true. SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. www.catholicthirdspace.com LIVING SOLIDARITY: Living Solidarity upholds the infinite dignity of every person by addressing the reality of spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Catholic Church. Living Solidarity helps to build a Church of integrity and solidarity by accompanying survivors of spiritual abuse with trauma-informed life coaching; equipping Church leaders and institutions to confront systemic harm; and creating resources grounded in psychological research and the Church’s Social Teaching. Visit livingsolidarity.com to learn more, to connect with Paul, to schedule individual life coaching, or to invite Paul to speak or consult with your community, parish, seminary, or diocese. ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey is currently a professional counselor, retreat leader, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He provides counseling for those who have been spiritually abused and creates resources for Church leaders to better safeguard their communities against all forms of abuse. He previously worked for eight years as the Director of Religious Education at a Catholic parish. Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife, Kristina, and their five kids. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • May 22 · 59 min

    Leo Live 4

    Follow Sarah at Recovering Catholic and Pope Leo Weekly. Become a paid subscriber to Third Space here: https://www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe Subscribe to Pope Leo Weekly here: https://popeleoweekly.substack.com/subscribe “As we approach the documents of Vatican Council II and rediscover their prophetic and contemporary relevance, we welcome the rich tradition of the life of the Church and, at the same time, we question ourselves about the present and renew our joy in running towards the world to bring it the Gospel of the kingdom of God, a kingdom of love, justice and peace.” Pope Leo Third Space is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • May 18 · 1 hr 24 min

    39: David Lantigua - Leo’s Latin American Theology

    In this episode, I had a great conversation with Dr. David Lantigua about the Latin American roots of Pope Leo’s theology. We specifically talked about how Latin American theology is present in Leo’s exhortation Dilexi Te. We also discussed how the Latin American rereading of Vatican II is Leo’s hermeneutic of the Council, and how it cuts through the progressive vs. traditionalist paradigm that has caused so much division in the Church. **Unfortunately, there was a technology issue with the video recording, so I’m only able to publish the audio of this conversation. Dr. David Lantigua is associate professor of theology at the University of Notre Dame, where he is also codirector of the Cushwa Center for the Study of American Catholicism. He is the author of “Infidels and Empires in a New World Order: Early Modern Spanish Contributions to International Legal Thought” from Cambridge University Press, 2020. He is currently completing a manuscript entitled Social Revolution after Pope Francis. I also have a couple of podcast updates! First, this is the final episode of Season Two! Like last year, I’ll be taking a break from podcasting through the summer to spend more time with family. Through the summer I’ll be rerunning “throwback” episodes from Third Space and Pope Francis Generation, and hopefully there’ll be a couple of new bonus episodes. Also, I wanted to make an ask. The Third Space podcast and substack is a crucial part of my “real job.” Like many millennials, my family’s income is in the gig economy. I work part-time as a professional counselor, then the rest of my income comes from consulting and coaching work about spiritual abuse in the Church and Third Space. I never anticipated that this Substack would become a real job, a key source of my income. But it has. And I’m grateful for it. Obviously, I’m not the first creator to make an income off of Substack. However, many of the professional Substackers put some or all of their content behind a paywall. And that’s great! Writers and podcasters deserve to be paid for their work. But I’ve decided not to do that. I always want Third Space to remain a resource that’s completely free and accessible to everyone who can benefit from it, regardless of their financial situation. That’s important to me. But I’m realizing that you don’t know what I need unless I tell you, unless I ask. The reality is that writing the essays and preparing for/recording podcasts take a significant amount of time, research, and emotional energy every week. Time and effort that, if I’m going to keep growing Third Space, also need to have financial growth. In the past year and a half, the overall subscribers have doubled, but the paid subscribers have essentially stayed the same. If you have the resources and value Third Space—if you open these emails and listen to the podcast—if you believe these conversations are important for the People of God, please consider becoming a paid patron today. You won’t get exclusive bonus content for upgrading. You’ll get the knowledge that you’re directly keeping these resources free for thousands of others, supporting my family, and ensuring Third Space can continue to grow. There’s a few ways to support Third Space, and there are some new “thank you” gifts for your support. Thank you! See this link for more details: https://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/this-is-more-than-i-ever-expected LINKS: Leo’s Ode to Latin American Theologyhttps://www.commonwealmagazine.org/leo-francis-poor-exhortation-pope-poor-dilexi-te Dr. David Lantiguahttps://theology.nd.edu/people/david-lantigua/ Cushwa Center for the Study of American Catholicismhttps://cushwa.nd.edu/ The Ecclesial Vision of Dilexi Tehttps://wherepeteris.com/the-ecclesial-vision-of-dilexi-te/ Dilexi Tehttps://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/apost_exhortations/documents/20251004-dilexi-te.html ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true. SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. www.catholicthirdspace.com LIVING SOLIDARITY: Living Solidarity upholds the infinite dignity of every person by addressing the reality of spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Catholic Church. Living Solidarity helps to build a Church of integrity and solidarity by accompanying survivors of spiritual abuse with trauma-informed life coaching; equipping Church leaders and institutions to confront systemic harm; and creating resources grounded in psychological research and the Church’s Social Teaching. Visit livingsolidarity.com to learn more, to connect with Paul, to schedule individual life coaching, or to invite Paul to speak or consult with your community, parish, seminary, or diocese. ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey is currently a professional counselor, retreat leader, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He provides counseling for those who have been spiritually abused and creates resources for Church leaders to better safeguard their communities against all forms of abuse. He previously worked for eight years as the Director of Religious Education at a Catholic parish. Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife, Kristina, and their five kids. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • May 4 · 1 hr 22 min

    38: Sr. Carino Hodder, OP - Pope Leo, One Year Later

    As we approach the anniversary of Pope Leo’s election, I spoke with Sr. Carino Hodder about his first year as the Supreme Pontiff. We talked about how Leo’s Augustian background may be shaping his governing style, as well as how we see him as the “Catechist Pope.” We also discuss some of the ways Leo has addressed abuse in the Church and some of our hopes and expectations for how he will continue. Sr. Carino Hodder is a Dominican Sister of Saint Joseph based in the New Forest in England. She assists her community with their apostolate of training catechists, primarily as a tutor on their Certificate in Catechesis. Since becoming a sister, she has worked as a First Holy Communion catechist, a Confirmation catechist, and a parish sister in a parish in London, as well as being involved in ongoing formation for all age groups. She also writes regularly for The Lamp magazine and has contributed to other publications including The Pillar, Plough, and Where Peter Is. She is also the author of ‘The Dignity of Woman in the Modern World’ published by the Catholic Truth Society and ‘Freedom Under Grace: Poverty, Chastity, and Obedience for Everyone’ which is forthcoming from Our Sunday Visitor. LINKS The Dominican Sisters of St. Josephhttps://www.dominicansisters.net/ Light of Truth: Live Catholic Formation for Everyonehttps://www.lightoftruth.uk/ Message of the Holy Father Leo XIV, signed by Cardinal Secretary of State Pietro Parolin, on the occasion of the Second National Meeting of local representatives for the protection of minors and vulnerable adultshttps://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2026/04/16/260416c.html Address the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors (March 16, 2026)https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/speeches/2026/march/documents/20260316-tutela-minori.html Words Matter: A guest post about vulnerability and abusehttps://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/words-matter ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true. SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. www.catholicthirdspace.com LIVING SOLIDARITY: Living Solidarity upholds the infinite dignity of every person by addressing the reality of spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Catholic Church. Living Solidarity helps to build a Church of integrity and solidarity by accompanying survivors of spiritual abuse with trauma-informed life coaching; equipping Church leaders and institutions to confront systemic harm; and creating resources grounded in psychological research and the Church’s Social Teaching. Visit livingsolidarity.com to learn more, to connect with Paul, to schedule individual life coaching, or to invite Paul to speak or consult with your community, parish, seminary, or diocese. ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey is currently a professional counselor, retreat leader, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He provides counseling for those who have been spiritually abused and creates resources for Church leaders to better safeguard their communities against all forms of abuse. He previously worked for eight years as the Director of Religious Education at a Catholic parish. Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife, Kristina, and their five kids. Third Space is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • April 20 · 1 hr 35 min

    37: Shaun Blanchard - “to conscience first, and to the Pope afterwards”

    Last time I had Shaun on, we discussed St. John Henry Newman becoming a doctor of the Church. In this episode, we followed up that conversation to talk about Newman’s thoughts on personal conscience and the sensus fidei, and what that means for Pope Francis, and now Pope Leo’s, vision of a synodal Church. All of that led to a question about how a Catholic can navigate a conviction of their conscience that is out of line with Church teaching while still striving to be faithful to the Church. Shaun Blanchard is Senior Lecturer in Theology at the University of Notre Dame Australia on the Sydney campus. A North Carolina native and graduate of UNC, Oxford (Blackfriars Hall), and Marquette, Shaun writes on a variety of topics in early modern and modern Catholicism, especially Jansenism, Catholic Enlightenment, the history of the papacy, and the Vatican councils. LINKS Shaun Blanchard:https://nd-au.academia.edu/ShaunBlanchard Shaun Blanchard - Doctor John Henry Newmanhttps://www.catholicthirdspace.com/p/29-shaun-blanchard-doctor-john-henry Traditionis Custodes Was Never Merely About the Liturgy:https://churchlifejournal.nd.edu/articles/traditionis-custodes-was-never-merely-about-the-liturgy/ The Reform Was Real: Continuity and change at Vatican II:https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/reform-was-real ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true. SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. www.catholicthirdspace.com LIVING SOLIDARITY: Living Solidarity upholds the infinite dignity of every person by addressing the reality of spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Catholic Church. Living Solidarity helps to build a Church of integrity and solidarity by accompanying survivors of spiritual abuse with trauma-informed life coaching; equipping Church leaders and institutions to confront systemic harm; and creating resources grounded in psychological research and the Church’s Social Teaching. Visit livingsolidarity.com to learn more, to connect with Paul, to schedule individual life coaching, or to invite Paul to speak or consult with your community, parish, seminary, or diocese. ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey is currently a professional counselor, retreat leader, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He provides counseling for those who have been spiritually abused and creates resources for Church leaders to better safeguard their communities against all forms of abuse. He previously worked for eight years as the Director of Religious Education at a Catholic parish. Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife, Kristina, and their five kids. Third Space is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • April 10 · 1 hr 25 min

    Leo Live 3

    It was great last night talking with Sarah Carter and Shaun Blanchard about Pope Leo’s ongoing catechesis on the documents of Vatican II Highlights included discussion about the senses fidei (what does it mean and is universal consensus even possible?), the baptismal priesthood, how we have misunderstood the meaning of “hierarchy,” a question about the Church’s perspective on ordaining gay men to the priesthood, and more! Sarah and I hope is to host live discussions every month following Leo’s catechesis. So keep an eye out for the next one. Go ahead and follow Sarah at Recovering Catholic and Pope Leo Weekly. Become a paid subscriber to Third Space here: https://www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe Subscribe to Pope Leo Weekly here: https://popeleoweekly.substack.com/subscribe “As we approach the documents of Vatican Council II and rediscover their prophetic and contemporary relevance, we welcome the rich tradition of the life of the Church and, at the same time, we question ourselves about the present and renew our joy in running towards the world to bring it the Gospel of the kingdom of God, a kingdom of love, justice and peace.” Pope Leo Third Space is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • April 6 · 1 hr 24 min

    36: Julia Sadusky - Conversion Therapy & Chiles v. Salazar

    **This episode was recorded on March 25, a week before the Supreme Court ruled 8-1 against the Colorado law banning therapists from practicing conversion therapy on minors Dr. Julia Sadusky graciously joined me again on the podcast, this time to discuss the bad psychology and bad theology that underpins conversion therapy. Last year, Julia, along with a group of other Christian mental health professionals, submitted an amicus brief to the Supreme Court (in Chiles v. Salazar) defending a Colorado law that bans licensed mental health professionals from practicing conversion therapy on minors. I spoke with Julia about the origins of conversion therapy, the harm it causes, and how this court case could impact Christian mental health providers. Dr. Julia Sadusky is an author, speaker, and licensed psychologist. She owns Lux Counseling and Consulting in Littleton, CO., where she offers individual, family, and couples therapy in addition to consultations for individuals and families around sexuality and gender. She also serves as a ministry educator, offering trainings and consultations to counseling centers and faith-based institutions on sexuality, gender identity, mental health, trauma-informed care, and the intersection of sexuality, gender, and theology. Other areas of focus include work with those experiencing complex trauma and eating disorders. Dr. Sadusky’s most recent books are Start Talking to Your Kids About Sex: A Practical Guide for Catholics and Talking with Your Teen About Sex: A Practical Guide for Catholics (Ave Maria Press). Dr. Sadusky has coauthored two other books, including Emerging Gender Identities: Understanding the Diverse Experiences of Today’s Youth (Brazos Press) and Gender Identity & Faith: Clinical Postures, Tools and Case Studies for Client-Centered Care (Intervarsity Press) with Mark Yarhouse, PsyD., and contributed to a four views book titled, Understanding Transgender Identities: 4 Views (Baker Academic). LINKS Julia Sadusky’s Website: https://www.juliasadusky.com/ Conversion Truth For Families website: https://www.conversiontruthforfamilies.org/free-guide Julia Sadusky’s Amicus Brief: https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/24/24-539/370705/20250826104808419_24-539%20Chiles%20Amicus%20Brief.pdf Online Course: Talking with Your Teen about Sex: A Practical Guide for Catholics: https://talkingtoyourteencourse.com/ **Coupon code: Themiddlespace10 for 10% off the course for parents of teens Book: Emerging Gender Identities: Understanding the Diverse Experiences of Today’s Youth: https://www.amazon.com/Emerging-Gender-Identities-Understanding-Experiences/dp/1587434342/ Book: Gender Identity and Faith: Clinical Postures, Tools, and Case Studies for Client-Centered Care: https://www.amazon.com/Gender-Identity-Faith-Clinical-Client-Centered/dp/0830841814/ Book: Emerging Sexual Identities: Navigating the Landscape with Today’s Youth (A Christian Guide to Understanding and Ministering to LGBTQ+ Youth): https://www.amazon.com/Emerging-Sexual-Identities-Understanding-Ministering/dp/1587436442 Julia Sadusky’s Substack: https://drsadusky.substack.com/ ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true. SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. www.catholicthirdspace.com LIVING SOLIDARITY: Living Solidarity upholds the infinite dignity of every person by addressing the reality of spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Catholic Church. Living Solidarity helps to build a Church of integrity and solidarity by accompanying survivors of spiritual abuse with trauma-informed life coaching; equipping Church leaders and institutions to confront systemic harm; and creating resources grounded in psychological research and the Church’s Social Teaching. Visit livingsolidarity.com to learn more, to connect with Paul, to schedule individual life coaching, or to invite Paul to speak or consult with your community, parish, seminary, or diocese. ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey is currently a professional counselor, retreat leader, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He provides counseling for those who have been spiritually abused and creates resources for Church leaders to better safeguard their communities against all forms of abuse. He previously worked for eight years as the Director of Religious Education at a Catholic parish. Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife, Kristina, and their five kids. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • March 23 · 1 hr 30 min

    35: Infinite Dignity

     In the work I do with people who have experienced harm and abuse in the Church, a question that often comes up is: Why are you still Catholic? Every person responds to that question in their own way. Maybe the most common response I hear is that it’s the sacraments, the Eucharist, that’s the thing that people feel keeps them connected to Catholicism. But my answer to that question isn’t the Eucharist or the liturgy. Maybe the biggest thing keeping me Catholic is the Church’s teaching on the infinite dignity of every human person. Not the teaching itself necessarily, but the worldview, the moral vision, that comes out of it. I wanted to share my love of this teaching, so for the past several weeks I have released a series of videos unpacking the prophetic and wildly unrealistic proclamation that every single human being has infinite dignity. I’m publishing these talks all together now into one podcast episode. These talks will include discussion of the Church’s teaching on the universal destination of goods, the rights of immigrants, the death penalty, spiritual abuse, the preferential option for the poor, and more. LINKS: Watch the video series here:https://www.youtube.com/@CatholicThirdSpace/playlists Dignitas Infinitahttps://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_ddf_doc_20240402_dignitas-infinita_en.html Fratelli Tuttihttps://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20201003_enciclica-fratelli-tutti.html Dilexi Tehttps://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/apost_exhortations/documents/20251004-dilexi-te.html ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true. SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. www.catholicthirdspace.com LIVING SOLIDARITY: Living Solidarity upholds the infinite dignity of every person by addressing the reality of spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Catholic Church. Living Solidarity helps to build a Church of integrity and solidarity by accompanying survivors of spiritual abuse with trauma-informed life coaching; equipping Church leaders and institutions to confront systemic harm; and creating resources grounded in psychological research and the Church’s Social Teaching. Visit livingsolidarity.com to learn more, to connect with Paul, to schedule individual life coaching, or to invite Paul to speak or consult with your community, parish, seminary, or diocese. ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey is currently a professional counselor, retreat leader, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He provides counseling for those who have been spiritually abused and creates resources for Church leaders to better safeguard their communities against all forms of abuse. He previously worked for eight years as the Director of Religious Education at a Catholic parish. Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife, Kristina, and their five kids. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • March 12 · 1 hr 19 min

    Leo Live 2

    It was a joy yesterday meeting with Sarah Carter and Sr Carino Hodder OP to talk about Pope Leo’s ongoing catechesis on the documents of Vatican II. Highlights included discussion about what it means for Scripture to be read in and for the Church; the Church as mystery and sacrament; the human and divine aspects of the Church; and the unity and diversity of the People of God. (It also seems worthy to mention that the resident Dominican breaks the stereotype and references Augustine ceaselessly while, if I recall correctly, not mentioning Aquinas once.) Sarah and I hope is to host live discussions every month following Leo’s catechesis. So keep an eye out for the next one. Go ahead and follow Sarah at Recovering Catholic and Pope Leo Weekly. She also put together a Leo Live Reading Companion. Become a paid subscriber to Third Space here: https://www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe Subscribe to Pope Leo Weekly here: https://popeleoweekly.substack.com/subscribe “As we approach the documents of Vatican Council II and rediscover their prophetic and contemporary relevance, we welcome the rich tradition of the life of the Church and, at the same time, we question ourselves about the present and renew our joy in running towards the world to bring it the Gospel of the kingdom of God, a kingdom of love, justice and peace.” Pope Leo Third Space is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

  • March 9 · 1 hr 24 min

    34: Anne Carpenter - Balthasar and the Catholic Right

    In this episode, I had a wonderful conversation with Anne Carpenter about Hans Urs von Balthasar, power, and vulnerability. Back in January, Anne had an essay in Commonweal titled, Raising the Bastions: Why the American Catholic right turned against Balthasar. In it, she was able to name the root sickness that I’ve seen and experienced in conservative Catholic spaces in the US, as well as in the institutional Church. Anne is insightful and profound, I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Anne Carpenter is a professor in the Department of Theological Studies at Saint Louis University. She is the author of Theo-Poetics: Hans Urs von Balthasar and the Risk of Art and Being (University of Notre Dame Press) and Nothing Gained Is Eternal: A Theology of Tradition (Fortress Press). LINKS: Raising the Bastions: Why the American Catholic right turned against Balthasarhttps://www.commonwealmagazine.org/carpenter-anne-balthasar-catholic-right ABOUT THIRD SPACE: Third Space is the podcast for those who see the beauty of Catholicism, as well as the ugliness, who have experienced real harm AND real grace in the Church. Every episode I will have conversations with guests about the good and the bad in the Church—avoiding easy answers or black & white fundamentalism—in order to hold on to all that is true. SUPPORT THIS SHOW: Please consider becoming a paid subscriber. All of your support directly helps my family and allows me to continue working on projects like this podcast, the newsletter, as well as resources about spiritual abuse in the Catholic Church. www.catholicthirdspace.com LIVING SOLIDARITY: Living Solidarity upholds the infinite dignity of every person by addressing the reality of spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience in the Catholic Church. Living Solidarity helps to build a Church of integrity and solidarity by accompanying survivors of spiritual abuse with trauma-informed life coaching; equipping Church leaders and institutions to confront systemic harm; and creating resources grounded in psychological research and the Church’s Social Teaching. Visit livingsolidarity.com to learn more, to connect with Paul, to schedule individual life coaching, or to invite Paul to speak or consult with your community, parish, seminary, or diocese. ABOUT THE HOST: Paul Fahey is currently a professional counselor, retreat leader, and the host of the Third Space podcast. He provides counseling for those who have been spiritually abused and creates resources for Church leaders to better safeguard their communities against all forms of abuse. He previously worked for eight years as the Director of Religious Education at a Catholic parish. Paul Fahey lives in Michigan with his wife, Kristina, and their five kids. Get full access to Third Space at www.catholicthirdspace.com/subscribe

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