the tortoise & the hare

hope & despair

In this week's episode, Brooke & Ben explore the duality of hope & despair. How do we find hope in the face of despair? What makes hope courageous? Is despair the coward’s way out? They get honest about their own dances with the despair-devil and trying to find light in the dark. They also dig into the difference between personal and global despair, switching off the inputs when the noise gets too much, the weird duality of hope and despair that can exist inside us at any given moment and why hope is the ultimate act of courage. They also talk about: - why despair is a coward - toxic positivity vs hope - isn’t hope just denial? - why despair makes us feel righteous - tempering hope with realism - the role of the dreamers - what is bringing them hope right now - booty shoes - pieces of art that combine hope and despair Thanks for listening! Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe

• Transcript

selfish & selfless

In this week's episode, Brooke & Ben explore the duality of selfish & selfless. They get a little word-nerdy as they look at the different definitions and explore the traits of a truly selfish person. They also explore the relationship between selfishness, selflessness and self-care, why single-mindedness (and by extension, neurodivergence) can read as being self-absorbed, before Ben quizzes Brooke on…shellfish. They also talk about: * why children and teenagers are often self-centred * periods of life when we’re more likely to be selfish * unaddressed resentment * why knowing our personal values can help manage the balance * the line between self-love and self-absorption * QUIZ: name that shellfish! Thanks for listening! Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe

• Transcript

clean & dirty

Whether it’s food, beauty products, or the state of our home, describing something as ‘clean’ also implies there is ‘dirty’, an idea that carries a lot of guilt and shame. In this week’s episode, Brooke and Ben dig into a new duality by looking at food, home, green-cleaning and more. Ben talks about the brosphere — specifically the rise of ‘clean eating’ and its impact on boys and young men — and Brooke talks about her conflicted feelings on individual responsibility versus industry accountability. Ben also shares his honest take on Brooke’s hardcore green-cleaning and no-shampoo hippie eras, as well as the tidiness of their house as a barometer of mental well-being and why the internet will never agree on how often to clean the walls. They also talk about: · dropping their standards · why kids can be a balancing influence on all-or-nothing thinking · using righteous anger to fuel our enoughness · making small changes in the face of systemic problems · quality versus quantity and how a bit of fussiness isn’t a bad thing · the painful gap between the why and how of things · knowing when a fight is worthwhile and when it’s not · the importance of language around food and health and why men and women experience it differently · what it means to be ‘houseproud’ · QUIZ: how often do you need to clean a ____? Thanks for listening! Links: Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for just $8AUD/month or $80AUD/yr. If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel @thetortoiseandthehare Access the full, human-made transcript here Credits: the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production. Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary Edited by Ben McAlary Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe

• Transcript

clean & dirty | the tortoise & the hare

Whether it’s food, beauty products, or the state of our home, describing something as ‘clean’ also implies there is ‘dirty’, an idea that carries a lot of guilt and shame. In this week’s episode, Brooke and Ben dig into a new duality by looking at food, home, green-cleaning and more. Ben talks about the brosphere — specifically the rise of ‘clean eating’ and its impact on boys and young men — and Brooke talks about her conflicted feelings on individual responsibility versus industry accountability. Ben also shares his honest take on Brooke’s hardcore green-cleaning and no-shampoo hippie eras, the tidiness of their house as a barometer of mental well-being, and why the internet will never agree on how often to clean the walls. They also talk about: dropping their standards why kids can be a balancing influence on all-or-nothing thinking using righteous anger to fuel our enoughness making small changes in the face of systemic problems quality versus quantity and how a bit of fussiness isn’t a bad thing the painful gap between the why and how of things knowing when a fight is worthwhile and when it’s not the importance of language around food and health and why men and women experience it differently what it means to be ‘houseproud’ QUIZ: how often do you need to clean a ____? Thanks for listening! Links: Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for just $8AUD/month or $80AUD/yr. If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel @thetortoiseandthehare Access the full, human-made transcript here Credits: the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production. Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary Edited by Ben McAlary Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

drunk & sober

Prompted by a listener question, this week’s episode is about Brooke and Ben’s relationship with alcohol and how it’s changed over the past five years. Brooke shares why she never really wanted to use the word ‘sober’ to describe herself and how healing helped her let go of rigid ideas on drinking vs not drinking. Ben discusses the role drinking culture has had on his life and why he thinks other countries do it better than Australia. They also talk about wasted days, the toll drinking takes and the flip-side: the high cost of complete restriction. It’s a vulnerable chat but it feels important to share. They also discuss: - their respective relationships with alcohol — then and now - Brooke’s experience with quitting — why, how and what she told people about it - what was lost and gained - how learning to have fun sober has been a game-changer - the physiological effects of alcohol and why Brooke used it as a social crutch - why moralising could have a negative effect on their family - how to step back from a restrictive mindset and soften the language we use - why we still do things we know to be “bad” for us - the difference between preferences and non-negotiables - what Brooke and Ben would tell themselves 10 years ago Thanks for listening! Links: Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for just $8AUD/month or $80AUD/yr. If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel @thetortoiseandthehare and watch today's episode Access the full, human-made transcript here Credits: the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production. Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary Edited by Ben McAlary Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe

• Transcript

drunk & sober | the tortoise & the hare 

Prompted by a listener question, this week’s episode is about Brooke and Ben’s relationship with alcohol and how it’s changed over the past five years. Brooke shares why she never really wanted to use the word ‘sober’ to describe herself and how healing helped her let go of rigid ideas on drinking vs not drinking. Ben discusses the role drinking culture has had on his life and why he thinks other countries do it better than Australia. They also talk about wasted days, the toll drinking takes and the flip-side: the high cost of complete restriction. It’s a vulnerable chat but it feels important to share. They also discuss: their respective relationships with alcohol — then and now Brooke’s experience with quitting — why, how and what she told people about it what was lost and gained how learning to have fun sober has been a game-changer the physiological effects of alcohol and why Brooke used it as a social crutch why moralising could have a negative effect on their family how to step back from a restrictive mindset and soften the language we use why we still do things we know to be “bad” for us the difference between preferences and non-negotiables what Brooke and Ben would tell themselves 10 years ago Thanks for listening! Links: Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for just $8AUD/month or $80AUD/yr. If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel @thetortoiseandthehare and watch today's episode Access the full, human-made transcript here Credits: the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production. Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary Edited by Ben McAlary Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

rigid & flexible | the tortoise & the hare

In today’s episode, Brooke and Ben dive into different ways of thinking — open and closed, fixed and fluid and whatever exists in between. They discuss their different approaches to rule-following, how they deal with opinion chameleons and why finding common ground is one of the most effective ways to have a constructive conversation. Ben also explains why he loves playing the devil’s advocate (and why Brooke finds it infuriating!) and finishes with a hard-hitting question: rigid or flexible lollies — which is better? They discuss: hypersensitivity Brooke’s EMDR experience dealing with narrow-minded people chameleon opinions and why they’re so confusing rule-followers vs rebels improving cognitive flexibility how to engage different opinions without losing your mind why hope hurts sometimes the great lolly debate: rigid vs flexible Thanks for listening! Links: Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com Credits: the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production. Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary Edited by Ben McAlary Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe

• Transcript

rigid & flexible | the tortoise & the hare 

In today’s episode, Brooke and Ben dive into different ways of thinking — open and closed, fixed and fluid and whatever exists in between. They discuss their different approaches to rule-following, how they deal with opinion chameleons and why finding common ground is one of the most effective ways to have a constructive conversation. Ben also explains why he loves playing the devil’s advocate (and why Brooke finds it infuriating!) and finishes with a hard-hitting question: rigid or flexible lollies — which is better? They discuss: hypersensitivity Brooke’s EMDR experience dealing with narrow-minded people chameleon opinions and why they’re so confusing rule-followers vs rebels improving cognitive flexibility how to engage different opinions without losing your mind why hope hurts sometimes the great lolly debate: rigid vs flexible Thanks for listening! Links: Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for just $8AUD/month or $80AUD/yr. If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel @thetortoiseandthehare Access the full, human-made transcript here Credits: the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production. Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary Edited by Ben McAlary Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

wrinkles & pimples | the tortoise & the hare

When it comes to age and youth, body image takes a beating at both ends. Can we find a gentler way through the years? In today’s show, Brooke and Ben discuss the duality of wrinkles & pimples — i.e. the visible elements of youth and aging — and how they are literally in the middle of it right now, with both wrinkles and pimples (and grey hair and stiff backs in the morning). They discuss: - changing body image in their mid-40s- why gender-affirming care (including hair removal, plastic surgery, make-up and hormone therapy) should be accessible to everyone- the changing role of body image for boys and men over the past decade- what our faces and bodies are actually for- the billionaires who want to live forever and go to great lengths to avoid aging Thanks for listening! Links: - Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com - Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for just $5AUD/month for a limited time- If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel @thetortoiseandthehare Credits: - the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production.- Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary- Edited by Ben McAlary- Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio- Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe

• Transcript

wrinkles & pimples | the tortoise & the hare

When it comes to age and youth, body image takes a beating at both ends. Can we find a gentler way through the years? In today’s show, Brooke and Ben discuss the duality of wrinkles & pimples — i.e. the visible elements of youth and aging — and how they are literally in the middle of it right now, with both wrinkles and pimples (and grey hair and stiff backs in the morning). They discuss: changing body image in their mid-40s why gender-affirming care (including hair removal, plastic surgery, make-up and hormone therapy) should be accessible to everyone the changing role of body image for boys and men over the past decade what our faces and bodies are actually for the billionaires who want to live forever and go to great lengths to avoid aging Thanks for listening! Links: Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for just $5AUD/month for a limited time If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel @thetortoiseandthehare Access the full, human-made transcript here Credits: the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production. Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary Edited by Ben McAlary Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

fast & slow | the tortoise & the hare

In the first episode of the tortoise & the hare, Ben and I revisit slow living one last time (no, really!) to see where we exist on the spectrum of speed today. Initially, slow living was a new way of seeing the world. It provided freedom and community and opportunity. But within a few years, the wellness industry exploded and slow-living voices competed to become a new version of the Joneses — the most slow, the most aesthetic, the most minimalist. What started as a fluid, adaptable idea became consumption-driven and highly aspirational. We’re so glad you’re here for the first episode and hope you enjoy it! Let us know what you think and what dualities you’d like us to tackle 💚 links from this episode: * from the archives: Too much of something good is still too much * from the archives: The fondest farewell * painting hyperfixation song: My Old Ways by Tame Impala * bearded flower crown man on IG: jonathanhiebert * my books * listen on spotify | apple | pocketcasts | and all other quality pod providers * if video is your jam, subscribe to @thetortoiseandthehare on YouTube support the show: * paying supporters of ttath get double the pod! Weekly episiodes delivered straight to your inbox for just $5/month (until September 7, then it goes up to $8/month) credits: * the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production. * Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary * Edited by Ben McAlary * Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio * Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe

• Transcript

fast & slow | the tortoise & the hare

fast & slow | Is there a middle ground between the two? Or are we destined to wrestle our inner-tortoise and inner-hare forever? In the first episode of the tortoise & the hare, Brooke and Ben revisit slow living one last time (no, really!) to see where they exist on the spectrum of speed today and why they decided to keep the slow living reference in the new show’s name. Initially, slow living was a new way of seeing the world. It provided freedom and community and opportunity. But within a few years, the wellness industry exploded and slow-living voices competed to become a new version of the Joneses — the most slow, the most aesthetic, the most minimalist. What started as a fluid, adaptable idea became consumption-driven and highly aspirational. Links: Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for just $5/month for a limited time If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel @thetortoiseandthehare Access the full, human-made transcript here Thanks for tuning in! Credits: the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production. Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary Edited by Ben McAlary Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

coming soon | the tortoise & the hare

Listen to the tortoise & the hare preview now. The first episode drops 20th August 2026! Fast and slow. Young and old. Hard and soft. Open and closed. Real and fake. Hide and seek. Pleasure and pain… Life is full of dualities and extremes and pick-a-sides. But most of our days are spent in the messy middle. the tortoise & the hare is a weekly show from Brooke and Ben McAlary, creators of the much-loved Slow Home Podcast (RIP). Each episode is a human-made, homegrown, perfectly imperfect conversation about the either/or of life and the vast grey area in between. Because we all contain multitudes. So let’s talk about them. *** Don't forget: Subscribe to ttath in your favourite podcast app so you don't miss an episode Join us on Substack to become a supporter, access weekly shows and get new episodes direct to your inbox Find us on YouTube if you prefer to watch your pods This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe

• Transcript

coming soon | the tortoise & the hare

Listen to the tortoise & the hare preview now. The first episode drops 20th August 2026! Fast and slow. Young and old. Hard and soft. Open and closed. Real and fake. Hide and seek. Pleasure and pain… Life is full of dualities and extremes and pick-a-sides. But most of our days are spent in the messy middle. the tortoise & the hare is a weekly show from Brooke and Ben McAlary, creators of the much-loved Slow Home Podcast (RIP). Each episode is a human-made, homegrown, perfectly imperfect conversation about the either/or of life and the vast grey area in between. Because we all contain multitudes. So let’s talk about them. *** Don't forget: Subscribe to ttath in your favourite podcast app so you don't miss an episode Join us on Substack to become a supporter, access weekly shows and get new episodes direct to your inbox Find us on YouTube if you prefer to watch your pods Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A Fond Farewell: Episode 17

Instead of the usual conversation between Brooke and Ben, today's episode is simply a reading of the final ever edition of The Tortoise newsletter. Take a listen, and please know that it has been an absolute pleasure to be heard by you over the years. https://brookemcalary.substack.com/p/sometimes-life-surprises-us Much love and thanks for listening, Brooke and Ben xx Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe

Balance: Episode 16

A more accurate title for this episode might have been: The Myth of Work-Life Balance, because both Ben and Brooke think it’s fundamentally BS, but that was too long a title, so Balance it is. In this episode, they look at the idea of balance through a post-lockdown, new-workplace lens, in an effort to make sense of why it feels harder to achieve now, and what we might be able to do to create it. They dig into their own definitions of balance, the pros and cons when it comes to self-employment, how they each differentiate between work time and non-work time and why they find the goal of work/life balance to be damaging. The also talk about anti-balance or tilting as an alternative, as well as the impact of the upcoming “right to disconnect” legislation, the attraction of "working ahead", how to approach changes in your own workplace when you’re not self-employed, and why it’s important to start small, specific and slow. It’s a juicy topic, not least because it applies to everyone differently and we hope you enjoy it. Head over to The Tortoise for the full show notes, and if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter while you're there. Thanks for listening! Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe

Body image: Episode 15

In this month's episode, Brooke and Ben dig into the topic of body image. How do we see ourselves in the world? How does that inform our choices and beliefs? What inputs have the most impact on our self-image? What began as a conversation about "hot rodent men" became an exploration of how we take up space in the world, the comments, trends, beliefs and expectations we internalise, how those things impact our behaviours and the role that media and marketing play in all of it. Brooke shares how her body image has shifted over the past few years, due to health issues, getting older, shifting priorities and the impact of slow living, and Ben looks at the differences in body image for young boys versus men. They also discuss their different experiences of negative body image growing up, how body and beauty trends keep us feeling "wrong," why the resurgence of “skinny” might be in direct response to body positivity, why body neutrality could be a healthier place to aim when it comes to self-image, and the importance of body appreciation and its role in our well-being. Head over to The Tortoise for the full show notes, and if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter while you're there. Thanks for listening! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe

• Transcript

Body Image: Episode 15

In this month's episode, Brooke and Ben dig into the topic of body image. How do we see ourselves in the world? How does that inform our choices and beliefs? What inputs have the most impact on our self-image? What began as a conversation about "hot rodent men" became an exploration of how we take up space in the world, the comments, trends, beliefs and expectations we internalise, how those things impact our behaviours and the role that media and marketing play in all of it. Brooke shares how her body image has shifted over the past few years, due to health issues, getting older, shifting priorities and the impact of slow living, and Ben looks at the differences in body image for young boys versus men. They also discuss their different experiences of negative body image growing up, how body and beauty trends keep us feeling "wrong," why the resurgence of “skinny” might be in direct response to body positivity, why body neutrality could be a healthier place to aim when it comes to self-image, and the importance of body appreciation and its role in our well-being. Head over to The Tortoise for the full show notes, and if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter while you're there. Thanks for listening! Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe

Pleasure: Episode 14

Pleasure. Just the word brings a little shiver to the spine, doesn't it? Defined as “a feeling or experience that involves enjoyment or satisfaction,” in today’s episode, Brooke and Ben dig a little deeper into what pleasure is in real terms, what it means to them personally and why expanding our individual definitions might be the key to unlocking a whole new way of experiencing life. For Brooke it relates to not only her word of the year (joy) but also the theme she's currently exploring over on The Tortoise — rebellious living. While at first glance, pleasure doesn’t appear to be particularly related to living rebelliously, throughout this conversation, she and Ben dig into why centring pleasure in a world that feels too much, too heavy, too overwhelming really can be an act of rebellion. (Honestly!) In a wide-ranging conversation, they also discuss how the senses are related to pleasure, why redefining and reclaiming it could increase the amount of pleasure we experience, the relationship between pleasure and addiction and why embracing joy and delight might make us less prone to capitalistic manipulation. They also talk about the six-second kiss that's been a game-changer, list some of their own simple pleasures and talk about the importance of becoming a better self-observer if we're going to invite more pleasure into our lives. Head over to The Tortoise for the full show notes, and if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter while you're there. Thanks for listening! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe

• Transcript

Pleasure: Episode 14

Pleasure. Just the word brings a little shiver to the spine, doesn't it? Defined as “a feeling or experience that involves enjoyment or satisfaction,” in today’s episode, Brooke and Ben dig a little deeper into what pleasure is in real terms, what it means to them personally and why expanding our individual definitions might be the key to unlocking a whole new way of experiencing life. For Brooke it relates to not only her word of the year (joy) but also the theme she's currently exploring over on The Tortoise — rebellious living. While at first glance, pleasure doesn’t appear to be particularly related to living rebelliously, throughout this conversation, she and Ben dig into why centring pleasure in a world that feels too much, too heavy, too overwhelming really can be an act of rebellion. (Honestly!) In a wide-ranging conversation, they also discuss how the senses are related to pleasure, why redefining and reclaiming it could increase the amount of pleasure we experience, the relationship between pleasure and addiction and why embracing joy and delight might make us less prone to capitalistic manipulation. They also talk about the six-second kiss that's been a game-changer, list some of their own simple pleasures and talk about the importance of becoming a better self-observer if we're going to invite more pleasure into our lives. Head over to The Tortoise for the full show notes, and if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter while you're there. Thanks for listening! Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit brookemcalary.substack.com/subscribe