The Regeneration Lab

Bas van den Berg

Welcome to The Regeneration Lab. The podcast of the Regenerative Thinking research group at the the Mission Zero centre of expertise at The Hague University of Applied Sciences, where we conduct integrated research to come up with regenerative solutions for a more sustainable future. Each episode features a leading educator, activist, professor, or researcher who is already engaging in more regenerative forms of higher education. Join us on this journey as we discover how these educational innovations emerged, how they are practiced, and the beautiful futures that are envisioned for more regenerative higher education. Along the way we will explore the systemic and personal challenges, barriers and opportunities that our awesome guests are facing to do this. You can reach out through mission-zero@hhs.nl to respond or connect to any of the episodes!

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Avg 57 min
English

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S9 · E1
Friday · 45 min
What if nature became a “who” rather than an “it”? A conversation with Ash Brockwell
Episode description What changes when “nature” stops being an abstract idea and becomes a relationship? In this conversation, Ash Brockwell shares how fieldwork, creative practice, Indigenous knowledge and different ways of knowing shape the Encountering Ecosystems module at the London Interdisciplinary School. We explore what it means to meet plants, animals and places as a “who” rather than an “it”, how students respond to unfamiliar ways of knowing, and why higher education needs more room for relationality, experimentation and life to grow through the cracks. Key themes Relational learning · More-than-human relationships · Indigenous knowledge · Creative ecological pedagogy · Decolonising higher education About the guest Dr. Ash Brockwell is Associate Professor at the London Interdisciplinary School (LIS), where Ash leads Encountering Ecosystems and is helping develop the Education Futures master’s programme. Ash’s work brings together environmental education, interdisciplinary research and artistic practice, informed by earlier work with Maasai communities in Tanzania and studies in environmental anthropology and biochemistry.
Friday · 1 hr 1 min
What if education learned to listen to trees? A conversation with Robbie Nicol
What changes when education moves beyond institutional walls and into relationship with the living world? In this conversation, Robbie Nicol reflects on decades of work in outdoor, place-based and environmental education. From “trees that speak” and residential learning to different ways of knowing, activism and communities of practice, we explore how education can become more relational, embodied and responsive. Robbie also challenges higher education to reconsider its structures and priorities, and asks a fundamental question for a time of climate and nature emergency: what is the moral purpose of education now? Key themes Place-based learning · Relationality · Epistemological diversity · Activist education · Transforming higher education About the guest Dr. Robbie Nicol is a retired Professor at the University of Edinburgh whose work spans outdoor, environmental and place-based education, learning for sustainability, and diverse ways of knowing. His teaching has explored residential and experiential learning, relational encounters with the more-than-human world, and how education can move from knowledge towards meaningful action. Explore Robbie’s work and resources: Times Higher Education World Academic Summit 2021 Panel Discussion on Place-Based Learning - https://www.timeshighereducation.com/campus/placebased-learning-digital-universities Dear Oak film by Catherine Dunn and Jack Reed - https://youtu.be/tHTuY8UBCCE Videoblog of Robbie working with students - https://blogs.ed.ac.uk/teaching-matters/a-video-blog/ Beames, S., Higgins, P., Nicol, R. and Smith. S. (2023) Outdoor Learning Across the Curriculum: Theory and Guidelines for Practice. New York: Routledge/Taylor and Francis Group. Robbie Nicol & Pete Higgins (2024) Teaching to transgress through residential education: Nurturing pedagogical innovation to tackle the climate and nature emergencies in higher education, Journal of Moral Education, DOI: 10.1080/03057240.2024.2360239
Friday · 48 min
What if education helped us become with the world? A conversation with Reineke van Tol
What if education helped us experience ourselves as part of a relational world? In this conversation, Reineke van Tol shares how wild pedagogies, relational outdoor learning and more-than-human perspectives can move education beyond learning about nature towards learning with it. We explore emotional and experiential learning, creating safe spaces for vulnerability, the possibilities and constraints of higher education, and what it means to “become with” the world. Reineke also reflects on how small seeds of change might grow into a wider forest of more meaningful education. Key themes Wild pedagogies · Relational learning · More-than-human perspectives · Experiential learning · Relational becoming About the guest Reineke van Tol is a teacher and researcher at Wageningen University & Research whose work explores relational outdoor learning, wild pedagogies, and questions of being and becoming in a world under stress. Her research and teaching investigate how embodied, emotional and reflective encounters with the more-than-human world can help learners reconsider who they are, what they care for, and how they want to live and contribute. Explore Reineke’s work: Wageningen University & Research profile - https://research.wur.nl/en/persons/reineke-van-tol/ How can we learn with nature, rather than about nature? - YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLX4v6QufTw Into the Wild Website - https://www.reineke-intothewild.com Van Tol, R. S. & Wals, A. (2025). Wild pedagogies in practice: Inspiration for higher education. Australian Journal of Environment
Friday · 56 min
What if we connected as nature, rather than with nature? A conversation with Anaïs Sägesser
What changes when we stop thinking of nature as something outside ourselves and begin connecting as nature? In this conversation, Anaïs Sägesser explores regenerative leadership, embodied and experiential learning, and the creation of safe-enough spaces for transformation. We discuss how sensory engagement and emotional experience can shift meaning perspectives, why ecocentrism matters for business education, and what higher education needs to cultivate in a time of ecological crisis. Anaïs also reflects on facilitation, systems change, and how the seeds of regenerative practice might grow into a wider forest. Key themes Regenerative leadership · Ecocentrism · Embodied transformative learning · More-than-human connection · Systems change About the guest Dr. Anaïs Sägesser is a Professor in societal transformation and transformative leadership at Bern University of Applied Sciences. Her work brings together regenerative leadership, co-creative and transformative learning, systems change, and embodied practices that reconnect us with ourselves, others, and the more-than-human world. A central thread in her work is exploring how ecocentric and relational ways of being can support wider societal transformation. Explore Anaïs’s work and resources: Foundational Practices of Regenerative Leadership — Insight Timer - https://insighttimer.com/meditation-courses/foundational-practices-of-regenerative-leadership World Ethic Forum Blog - https://www.worldethicforum.com/blog/ Scaling4good Blog - https://scaling4good.com/our-thoughts/ Selected publications: Sägesser, A., Singer-Brodowski, M., Förster, R. & Walkes, S. (forthcoming). Restorative justice and transformative learning: Creating brave and safe enough spaces for decolonial climate action. Förster, R. & Sägesser, A. (in press). Re-sensing the urban: Transformative pathways to regenerative human-nature relationship through diverse ways of knowing. In Urban Human-Nature Partnerships – From the Anthropocene to the Ecocene. Edward Elgar Publishing. Ritter, L. & Sägesser, A. (2025). Toward an Ecocentric Leadership as Stewardship Framework: Insights from Fostering Transformative Partnerships and Collective Practice. Earth Stewardship, 2(5), e70027. Sägesser, A. & Shamsudhin, N. (2025). Decolonial embodied transformative learning. Proceedings of Relating Systems Thinking and Design, RSD13, Article 61. Sägesser, A. & Förster, R. (2025). Kompetenzentwicklung für Ko-Facilitator:innen: Transformationsprozesse aus dem In-Verbindung-Sein heraus begleiten. In Kompass für den Wandel. Oekom Verlag. Förster, R. & Sägesser, A. (2025). Connecting to self and to nature. In Imagining, Designing and Teaching Regenerative Futures. Springer. Sägesser, A. & Förster, R. (2025). Relating: Connecting As Nature—A practice towards relational, collective leadership grounded in ecocentrism. In Inner Development Goals: Stories of Collective Leadership in Action. De Gruyter.
Friday · 1 hr 16 min
What if learning began with the ground beneath our feet? A conversation with Hans Lodders & Sunamita Iris Rodrigues Borges da Costa
What happens when students learn not only about sustainability, but by working with real places and real challenges? In this conversation, Hans Lodders and Sunamita Iris Rodrigues Borges da Costa share how QXote has become a living laboratory for regenerative, place-based learning in southern Portugal. We explore co-learning across disciplines, restoring soils and biodiversity, cultivating active hope, and creating meaningful learning beyond institutional walls. Hans and Sunamita also reflect on business, education and why prosperity, collaboration and replicability may matter more than endless growth and scalability. Key themes Place-based learning · Regeneration · Co-learning · Active hope · Living labs About the guests Dr. Sunamita Iris Rodrigues Borges da Costa is a Brazilian-born educator, researcher and co-founder and COO of QXote. With more than two decades of teaching experience and a PhD in Geography of Innovation, her work brings together environmental education, multi-stakeholder collaboration, territorial development and hands-on approaches to regeneration. She is also a trained Permaculture Designer and works with land restoration and community-led climate resilience in Portugal’s Alentejo region. Johannes (Hans) W.E. Lodders is a consultant, programme manager, social entrepreneur and co-founder of QXote. With a background in media and innovation and more than 25 years of experience, he specialises in creating multi-stakeholder partnerships across education, business, government and civil society. At QXote, he works to connect these different worlds through experimentation, collaboration and place-based learning for sustainable regional development. Explore their work: QXote - www.qxote.com QXote Magazine - https://simplebooklet.com/qxotemagazine QXote on Instagram - instagram.com/qxotept QXote on LinkedIn - linkedin.com/company/qxote
S8 · E2
June 18 · 49 min
What if we taught like gardeners, not mechanics? - A conversation with Lucia Walsh
"We are not mechanics, we are more like gardeners or stewards who plant seeds," Lucia tells us, describing her teaching philosophy organized around the four seasons. From winter's inner work to autumn's harvest, she guides students through natural cycles of growth that honor both head, heart, and hands. Driven by her children and a refusal to continue "education as usual," Lucia has embraced transformative education that moves students from "doing things better" to "seeing things differently." In this conversation, she shares how she uses embodied learning, the Doughnut Economics model, and Joanna Macy's "Work That Reconnects" to help students understand that entrepreneurship can contribute to the great turning away from extractive systems toward regenerative ones. Key themes: Seasonal learning, embodied education, head-heart-hands approach, gift economy, personal motivation
S8 · E14
June 18 · 1 hr 32 min
What if it is the student's mountain to climb, not ours? A Conversation with Yolan van Gielen
Yolan uses the metaphor of a mountain climbing expedition to describe teaching: students must learn to be responsible for themselves first, then work interdependently, and ultimately collaborate with non-humans—the circular economy, energy systems, and biodiversity itself. "It's not my mountain, it's their mountain," Yolan emphasizes, explaining why student ownership is central to learning. Drawing from cooperative education models and permaculture design principles, Yolan creates learning experiences where students work in teams, practice sociocratic decision-making, and track not just what they learn but how they view things differently. This episode explores the power of starting small, moving slow, and building resilient learning communities. Key themes: Student ownership, permaculture in education, cooperative models, working with non-humans, evolutionary change
S8 · E13
June 11 · 1 hr 11 min
What If Love for People and Planet Guided Teaching? A Conversation with Eddy van Hemelrijk
The role of business should be to do good for society and the planet," Eddy declares. "Business and being a business person is not about individual wealth and fame." Having transformed from what he calls "a regular businessman trained in a very neoliberal way" into an educator, Eddy embodies the personal transformation that many in this series describe: reaching a point where "we couldn't continue the way we were doing." But what makes Eddy's approach distinctive is what he identifies as his driving force—"the major element for me is love for people and love for nature"—and how students feel it. Teaching business ethics, he provocatively asks students whether that's an oxymoron, helping them see the tension between conventional business paradigms and regenerative futures. Eddy emphasizes getting students back to nature, learning from biologists and biomimicry, discovering how energy can flow in a room, and understanding that sustainability - doing less harm - isn't enough. "We need a thriving society and flourishing society," he insists. From debating utopian versus dystopian futures to seeing rising inequality in cities as a call to action, Eddy demonstrates how personal values can fundamentally reshape what and how we teach. Key themes: Love as pedagogy, business for good, personal transformation, nature connection, beyond sustainability to thriving, intergenerational justice
S8 · E12
June 4 · 53 min
How Do We Equip Students With Empathy for Non-Humans? A Conversation with Kristin Krebs
For Kristin, regeneration isn't just an add-on to entrepreneurship education—it's an invitation to fundamentally rethink what entrepreneurship even is. "I hope entrepreneurship education is opening up to rethink what entrepreneurship is, and it doesn't solely mean founding a start-up or exploiting a business opportunity," she explains. With a strong social-ecological justice awareness, Kristin sees entrepreneurship as potentially just the means to the end of achieving regeneration. Her teaching draws from design thinking, but adapted - focusing not just on users but on broader social-ecological systems. She emphasizes non-human actors, teaches basics from biology and ecology, and equips her students with empathy for all beings on the planet. Kristin creates spaces where transparency matters, where students address her informally, and where she actively reassures them that insecurity and mistakes are part of the process - especially important given the mental health crisis at universities. From learning about holocracy to visiting nature for teaching, Kristin demonstrates that regeneration brings up the same tensions as sustainability, but more elevated. Key themes: Redefining entrepreneurship, social-ecological justice, non-human actors, design thinking adaptation, transparency and vulnerability, mental health awareness
S8 · E9
May 28 · 35 min
Can we make the planet a stakeholder? A Conversation with Mirjam Pfenninger
Mirjam sees herself as an incubator preparing caterpillars to become butterflies—holding a safe space where transformation can happen before students are ready to fly. Having grown up close to nature, she's evolved from human-centered design to planet-and-human-centered approaches, and she's not afraid to challenge conventional tools. When the Business Model Canvas wasn't enough, she and her colleagues created the Value Creation Canvas. But perhaps most radically, Mirjam forces her students to include an additional stakeholder in every project: the planet itself. What are the planet's jobs to be done? What are its pains and gains? In this episode, we explore what it means to call students "preneurs"—leaving space for entrepreneurs, intrapreneurs, and commonpreneurs alike—and why having fun as an educator matters just as much as transformation. Key themes: Planet as stakeholder, transformation as metaphor, value creation canvas, preneurship, safe space for chang
May 21 · 56 min
What If Nature Was Our Teacher? A Conversation with Trudie Murray
Trudie's journey from humanitarian aid to entrepreneurship education was shaped by witnessing the limits of well-meaning interventions and the dangerous lack of systems thinking in development work. Fear for her children's future drove her to completely reimagine how she teaches - and biomimicry became the key. "When I started looking at entrepreneurial learning through the lens of nature, it really changed how I saw myself as an educator," she explains. Now her classroom is a living lab for regenerative thinking, where students use natural materials for prototypes, walk through parks for ecological awareness, and sometimes even write poetry after being among trees. As a fellow traveler on a forest path that changes with every season, Trudie emphasizes that teaching regeneration must begin with care - care for the planet, for learners, for ourselves, and for all the systems we're trying to change. Key themes: Biomimicry, nature-based learning, sensory pedagogy, care as foundation, living lab classroom
S8 · E11
May 14 · 1 hr 1 min
Can Unlearning Be the First Step to Regeneration? A Conversation with Ilona Klama
"It is important not to jump straight into solutions but staying in the uncomfortable, not knowing, having to listen, understanding better, do it all over again - staying in the zone of discomfort," Ilona explains. As the guardian of winds who supports students to find their way of flying, Ilona understands that transformation requires unlearning before relearning - and unlearning means frustration, confusion, and irritation. Rather than protecting students from these feelings, Ilona creates spaces where they work together for entire days, going through the frustration in the room together. Having gone through her own studies feeling like something was missing - especially in business administration where "there was only one way of looking at things" - Ilona now emphasizes that innovation starts at the individual level, not just at the entrepreneurial society level. She's developed regenerative business model canvases that include stakeholders who don't benefit from the system, and she uses life-centered design thinking approaches that go beyond human users. For Ilona, regeneration is fundamentally "a way of thinking that leads to new ways of doing," and that thinking requires the courage to stay with not-knowing while discovering potential together with everyone in the room through deep listening. Key themes: Staying with discomfort, unlearning and relearning, listening as tool, life-centered design, including marginalized stakeholders, regeneration as thinking, individual transformation
S8 · E10
May 7 · 1 hr
How Do We Shift From Extraction to Contribution? A Conversation with Rob Lubberink
Rob's research in Malawi on material arrangements and entrepreneurial behavior led to a profound insight: it's not just entrepreneurs who have agency—the everyday materials and systems around us shape what's possible. Using the metaphor of a football coach with a new team every year, Rob describes the challenge of creating learning experiences where students understand systems thinking, recognize their multiple roles in society, and most importantly, shift from asking "what's in it for me?" to "what am I contributing?" This episode explores how Rob uses the Doughnut Economics model, biomimicry sensory experiences, and work with practice partners to help students see that regeneration isn't just about agriculture—it's about fundamentally changing our relationship with all actants, human and non-human alike. Key themes: Distributed agency, systems thinking, material arrangements, Doughnut Economics, shifting from extraction to contribution
S8 · E9
April 30 · 51 min
How Do We Move From Profit-First to Values-First? A Conversation with Bruno Delepierre
Bruno's metaphor of the chef supporting apprentices to find their unique expression captures his belief that education is fundamentally about connection and craft. But what makes Bruno's approach distinctive is his willingness to be vulnerable. "An educator wins a lot if he is able to be vulnerable towards students, so they see there's a human being in front of them," he shares. Having moved from Silicon Valley-style entrepreneurship—where the social-ecological dimension wasn't even on his radar—to regenerative education, Bruno emphasizes that courage doesn't mean the absence of fear. "We can be fearful and courageous at the same time." In this episode, we explore how personal loss transformed what Bruno sees as important beyond business, why he believes embodied learning and play matter, and how his regenerative business model canvas injects regeneration into tools that were originally designed for extraction. Key themes: Vulnerability as practice, courage and fear, personal transformation, embodied learning, regenerative tools
S8 · E8
April 23 · 1 hr
What If We Started With Potential, Not Problems? A Conversation with Charles van de Kerkhof
Charles uses the metaphor of animal tracking—where many different paths lead to the same animal, and complexity increases the more you zoom out—to describe the intricate work of regenerative entrepreneurship education. Inspired by witnessing value-based entrepreneurship in Africa, where money wasn't the first priority, Charles challenges the mechanistic worldview dominant in the West and instead emphasizes living systems thinking and interconnectedness. "Regeneration is about finding your potential after unpacking the complexity of entrepreneurship and understanding the world's problems," Charles explains. In this episode, we explore why regeneration means going outside, why having the same vocabulary is essential before we can move forward together, and why Charles believes that entrepreneurship—with an entrepreneurial, critical, and regenerative mindset—is the tool to put a paradigm shift into action. Change means taking risks, being curious, and staying uncomfortable. Key themes: Living systems thinking, complexity, ecological literacy, going outside, paradigm shift, value-based work
April 16 · 1 hr 2 min
How Do We Weave Academic Networks of Care? A Conversation with Sergia Lage Arias
While mainstream entrepreneurship is about acceleration, innovation, and speed, Sergia offers a radically different metaphor: compost—slow, natural growth through decomposition and regeneration. Growing up connected to the land and sea in Galicia, Sergia brings a deeply place-based perspective to education, emphasizing that we must be "in, for, and of" our local contexts. Through nature walks, eco-social sewing (a form of community communication), and visits to local businesses that don't appear in textbooks, Sergia creates spaces for students to understand entrepreneurship beyond startup culture—as stewardship. But this work is hard, and Sergia doesn't shy away from naming educator burnout and the need for institutional bravery. "We should be weaving academic networks that really start from caring for others and being aware that you are not alone," Sergia reminds us, calling for courage, community, and the patience to let regeneration unfold at nature's pace. Key themes: Slow growth, place-based learning, eco-social methods, stewardship, educator networks, institutional courage
April 9 · 58 min
What if we viewed uncertainty as possibility? A Conversation with Yvette Baggen
"We don't start-up businesses, we start-up people," Yvette declares, capturing her fundamental reframing of entrepreneurship education. For her, uncertainty isn't something to fear—it's a source of hope and inspiration. Yvette's teaching is centered on helping students learn to embrace and navigate uncertainty, understanding that collaboration and diverse teams are essential for addressing the complexity of sustainability and regeneration. She emphasizes that students need to take ownership of their own learning journey, working on real-world assignments based on effectuation principles—focusing on what they can control. In this conversation, Yvette explores why she finds more meaning in students' reflections than their final products, and how she's rethinking assessment and grading to better serve regenerative education. Key themes: Starting-up people, uncertainty as hope, student ownership, effectuation, team collaboration, assessment innovation
S8 · E7
April 2 · 1 hr
What If the Classroom Was a Relational Field? - A Conversation with Catherine Brentnall
Catherine doesn't see the classroom as a space for delivering content - she sees it as a relational field where she's deeply interested in what's happening between people. Driven by a strong sense of justice and what she describes as an "obsession with inequality and unsustainability," Catherine's teaching journey took a decisive turn in 2021 when the IPCC's "Code Red for Humanity" report made continuing with business-as-usual education not just difficult, but impossible. In this episode, Catherine shares how she practices compassionate pedagogy - drawing from an interest in uncompetitive, cooperative learning interactions - and why she invests so much energy in learning students' names and understanding their realities. From exploring democratic ownership structures like steward ownership and cooperatives to insisting that we constantly question our assumptions, Catherine demonstrates what it means to build education on relationships, critical thinking, and hope in the face of climate breakdown. Key themes: Relational pedagogy, compassionate teaching, justice orientation, questioning assumptions, democratic ownership
S8 · E6
March 26 · 43 min
What If We Designed Futures We Can't Yet Imagine? - A Conversation with Sebastian Planck
Sebastian opens with a bold pedagogical move: meditation on the floor, shoes off, in the middle of an entrepreneurship class. As someone who deliberately challenges himself to push students out of their comfort zones -even when it makes him feel insecure - Sebastian believes that discomfort, resistance, and friction are not problems to be solved but energy to be harnessed. Using the kite runner metaphor, Sebastian describes entrepreneurship as learning to work with winds you cannot predict or control. This episode takes us through speculative design workshops, uncomfortable embodied exercises, and mountain retreats where Sebastian creates what he calls "comfortable uncertainty" - a space where students feel seen as humans while simultaneously being stretched beyond their limits. Key themes: Productive discomfort, embodied learning, speculative design, working with uncertainty, self-challenging
S8 · E5
March 19 · 48 min
What If We Created New Maps for Entrepreneurship? - A Conversation with Juliane Schuster
"We need to let go of some of the old maps," Juliane tells us, describing herself as a mapmaker who sends learners out to explore their own paths. But this isn't about abandoning students—it's about recognizing that in the current system, the old maps lead toward finite resources, and that's not where regeneration can take us. Juliane's turning point came from studying IPCC reports and climate science: "We cannot go on like this." What followed was the development of transformative entrepreneurship education, where futures thinking comes before project work, where values alignment is essential, and where Juliane frames entrepreneurship itself as an intervention to the status quo. In this episode, we explore the tension of operating within a system while trying to transform it, and why Juliane insists that learning must emerge from struggle—we can't design the difficulty out of transformation. Key themes: Transformative education, futures thinking, entrepreneurship as intervention, learning through struggle, creating new maps

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