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The Binary Agora

albariberamartinez

The Binary Agora is an open space that serves as a meeting ground for legal tech discussions.

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  • S3 · E11
    Tuesday · 28 min

    #55 Technological Capture w/ Dr. Elettra Bietti

    Explore the concept of technological capture in digital regulation with Elettra Bietti, an expert in law and computer science. In this episode, we discuss how big tech influences regulatory frameworks and the implications for the public interest. Read Elettra's co-authored paper with Anne Bellon on technological capture here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=7391898. Throughout the episode, Elettra touched upon several developments surrounding the concept of technological capture. Click directly on them through the links below: - 01:43, Stigler's ideas on regulatory capture: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3003160. - 06:13, Daniel Carpenter's and David Moss' book on Preventing Regulatory Capture: https://tobinproject.org/books-papers/preventing-capture. - 12:13, The US Microsoft case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp. - 15:52, Meta sets out its Oversight Board: https://transparency.meta.com/oversight/creation-of-oversight-board/. - 16:09, The EC's analysis of the Facebook/WhatsApp merger: https://ec.europa.eu/competition/mergers/cases/decisions/m7217_20141003_20310_3962132_EN.pdf. - 16:36, The 'Spamming the Regulator' paper: https://academic.oup.com/antitrust/article-abstract/12/1/7/7128249. - 17:31, TikTok mobilises influencers against the US ban: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/tiktok-influencers-us-ban-protest-b2306241.html. - 18:31, Ariel Ezrachi's and Maurice Stucke's view on frenemies: https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv24w63h3. - 18:35, Branderburger's and Nalebuff's notion of co-opetition: https://www.strategy-business.com/article/17483. - 18:43, Apple and Mozilla participate in the US Google Search case: https://spyglass.org/google-apple-and-mozilla-win-in-the-antitrust-case-google-lost/. - 26:25, Phil Weiser talks about tiered remedies in the US Google Search case: https://coag.gov/press-releases/attorney-general-phil-weiser-statement-google-search-remedies-9-2-25/. Key Moments 01:05 Overview of the Paper 02:15 Corrosive Capture Explained 05:21 Limitations of Regulatory Capture Theory 08:15 Differences in EU and US Regulation 10:06 Transition to Technological Capture 14:44 Dimensions of Technological Capture 21:17 Countermeasures to Tech Power To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S3 · E10
    September 29 · 24 min

    #54 A Religious Approach to Openness: AI Markets Competition Through Open Models w/ Francesco Pili

    In this conversation, I discuss with Francesco Pili the very topical issue of open source and open weights AI models as the solution to competition. Francesco contests the premise and argues that degrees of openness normally characterise strong, robust, and resilient digital markets. We introduce the conversation by talking about the Open Weights and American AI Leadership Statement: https://images.nvidia.com/pdf/Open-Weights-and-American-AI-Leadership.pdf. Throughout the conversation, Francesco touches upon several points that may merit your closer attention. Click on the links provided below directly: - 04:01, The Open Source Initiative, founded in 1998: https://opensource.org/. - 04:55, The European Parliament asks the European Commission about security and privacy risks: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-10-2026-003096_EN.html. - 06:44, AG Jacob's Opinion in Bronner: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:61997CC0007. - 07:17, The Court of Justice's Android Auto ruling (Case C-233/23): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62023CJ0233. - 09:36, The European Commission's Guidelines on Article 102 TFEU: https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/document/download/ac0e592e-2c8e-4a45-aae5-d82e7327b022_en?filename=Guidelines_on_exclusionary_abuses_of_dominance_102TFEU.pdf. - 11:04, The European Commission's specification measures under Article 6(7) against Google's Android AI functionalities: https://ec.europa.eu/competition/digital_markets_act/cases/202629/DMA_100220_2683.pdf. - 13:47, Trump's proposed ban on Chinese open-weight models: https://www.fastcompany.com/91576757/trumps-proposed-ban-on-chinese-ai-models-could-strengthen-beijings-hand. - 15:59, The Foreign Subsidies Regulation: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2022/2560/oj. - 22:12, Meta's exclusion of third-party LLM providers on WhatsApp: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/sv/ip_26_310. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the debate on AI openness 01:24 Signatories of the open weights statement and their interests 02:09 Principled argument vs. business incentives in openness 02:56 Difference between open source and open weights 04:11 The debate about degrees of openness 05:13 Who should be required to open their AI systems 06:50 Openness and innovation: long-term considerations 08:32 Empirical approach to openness and security 11:58 European Commission's approach to interoperability 12:24 Market forces and industry-led openness 15:04 Europe's role in AI geopolitics 18:34 When should regulators impose openness obligations 21:31 Evidence needed for openness regulation 23:04 Who should prove the standards for openness To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • September 22 · 26 min

    #53 Treating AI Like Adults in the Face of Extinction Threats w/ Prof. Simone Vannuccini

    In this episode, Simone Vannuccini walks us through the threats of Artificial General Intelligence from his expertise in analysing the economics of AI and shares the common misconceptions that surround current AI development. If you're one of the few humans on Earth who did not see Jacob Coxon's comments: https://apnews.com/article/anthropic-ai-safety-jacob-coxon-2ed549e07f2f941600a135070487d83d. As promised, here you can find all the references that Simone introduced when talking about AI and AGI. Click on the links to access them directly: - 00:49, OpenAI and Anthropic CEOs call for a pause in advancing model capabilities: https://www.npr.org/2026/09/12/nx-s1-5950588/openai-anthropic-ai-safety-researchers-hacks. - 01:58, Simone's research on AGI as a poorly defined concept: https://doi.org/10.1177/02683962231197824. - 03:17, The hacking of Hugging Face by OpenAI: https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/openais-rogue-agents-probed-hugging-face-weaknesses-two-months-before-major-hack-2026-09-16/. - 04:18, Research on the faulty logic of substituting language mastery for understanding: https://arxiv.org/html/2512.19466v1. - 04:45, John von Neumann's ideas on replicating the human brain: https://engines.egr.uh.edu/episode/2487. - 05:00, AEON article by Margaret Boden: https://aeon.co/essays/the-robots-wont-take-over-because-they-couldnt-care-less. - 06:30, Nick Bostrom on superintelligence concept: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/superintelligence-9780198739838. - 07:04, Sci-fi is selectively read in the AI field: https://aeon.co/essays/silicon-valley-has-a-science-fiction-problem. - 09:56, Coxon's interview on CNN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i30jVPqQeOM. - 10:34, The Shock of the Old by David Edgerton: https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Shock_of_the_Old.html?id=rn88DwAAQBAJ. - 11:17, Jensen Huang defending that we should look at AI as a technology: https://www.politico.eu/article/jensen-huang-dont-regulate-ai-like-social-media/. - 11:41, Simone's research on negligible impacts of AI at the macro level: http://195.220.190.85/GREDEG-WP-2025-21.pdf. - 14:26, Bob Solow's paradox: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-solow-productivity-paradox-what-do-computers-do-to-productivity/. - 15:34, Daron Acemoglu defending that no macro-level impacts are expected: https://economics.mit.edu/sites/default/files/2024-05/The%20Simple%20Macroeconomics%20of%20AI.pdf. - 18:18, State of the Union von der Leyen arguing for slowing the pace of AI development: https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2026/09/16/eus-von-der-leyen-calls-for-pacing-frontier-ai-models. - 20:29, Comparison of AI with the Enron case: https://www.captechu.edu/blog/ai-boom-and-enron-lesson-why-ethical-ai-matters. - 22:27, Lina Khan article on calling to stop worshipping tech giants: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/04/opinion/deepseek-ai-big-tech.html. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to AI safety concerns and industry warnings 02:03 Debunking the concept of AGI and its definitions 06:17 Market dynamics, investment, and the hype around superintelligence 10:09 Current AI impacts versus future fears of superintelligence 12:07 Micro versus macro impacts of AI and productivity 13:15 AI as a large technical system and its economic implications 14:32 The productivity paradox and the true effects of AI 16:58 The debate over AI regulation and industry influence 17:34 Narratives, regulation, and the risk of an AI bubble burst 19:42 The focus on industrial AI and beyond hype 20:53 Market concentration, cartel behavior, and industry interdependence 23:10 Concentration of power in AI labs and its impact on innovation 24:19 The direction of AI innovation and barriers to entry 25:40 Historical parallels and future prospects for AI markets The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S3 · E8
    September 17 · 18 min

    #52 Computational Antitrust is Here to Stay w/ Dr. Thibault Schrepel

    In this episode, I discuss with Thibault Schrepel how computational antitrust is transforming legal standards and enforcement practices. He shares insights on the rapid adoption of AI tools by competition agencies, the benefits and challenges of automation, and the future of this evolving field. You can find the Stanford Computational Antitrust fifth report here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=7386238. Throughout the episode, Thibault also happened to mention a few of his publications. Click on them directly in the links below: - 02:47, The Stanford Computational Antitrust reports for the last four years, co-edited alongside Teodora Groza; first report (https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-adoption-of-computational-antitrust-by-agencies-2021-report/); second (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4476321); third (https://law.stanford.edu/publications/computational-antitrust-within-agencies-3rd-annual-report/) and fourth (https://law.stanford.edu/publications/computational-antitrust-worldwide-fourth-cross-agency-report/). - 04:09, His paper, co-authored alongside Alex Pentland on competition between foundation models: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4493900. - 04:23, His paper, co-authored alongside Teodora Groza on computing innovation competition: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4985079. - 05:03, His paper on adaptive regulation: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5416454. - 06:51, The podcast we recorded with the CADE Chair on the use of computational tools: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1EcVTR1KfzniU77skgo7NN?si=0c2c1222eae54f14. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to computational antitrust and Thibault Schrepel 01:04 The evolution of AI adoption in competition agencies 02:22 From theory to practice: AI tools in enforcement 03:32 The role of generative AI and foundation models 04:48 Computational tools and innovation competition 06:20 Benefits of automation: speed and breadth in investigations 08:44 Legal challenges and the gap between law and technology 11:48 Convergence of tools and best practices among agencies 14:53 Opportunities for smaller agencies through computational antitrust 16:45 Future directions: institutional design and global adaptation To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S3 · E7
    September 15 · 19 min

    #51 The Informant in Your Pocket: All Roads Lead to the Question of Spyware Misuse w/ Lena Riecke

    In this episode, I talk to Lena Riecke about the complex world of commercial spyware, its implications for privacy, democracy, and international security, and the challenges in regulating this powerful technology. Throughout the episode, Lena touches upon different developments that have taken place in the spyware market. Click on them below to access them directly: - 03:02, Commercial spyware like Pegasus: https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/commercial-spyware/50813/. - 03:31, Reports on spyware as systems that turn phones into 24-hour surveillance devices: https://media.un.org/unifeed/en/asset/d293/d2933358. - 04:09, Ron Diebert's book drawing similarities between nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction and spyware: https://www.managementboek.nl/boek/9781912836772/reset-ronald-j-deibert?srsltid=AfmBOoqX5W23yTSV_b6eVTFRzjrF7rdQRgVcKHUcq_PFkyK-yqFyzXEY. - 04:41, The Spanish Pegasus scandal: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/23/spanish-court-drops-pegasus-spyware-case-again-israel-spain-nso. - 07:11, Reports on Hacking Team and FinFisher selling products to repressive regimes: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/08/hacking-team-leaks-confirm-what-arab-privacy-advocates-already-knew. - 07:21, Wassenaar Arrangement on certain spyware components: https://www.wassenaar.org/. - 07:50, US-led joint statement in 2023: https://2021-2025.state.gov/joint-statement-on-efforts-to-counter-the-proliferation-and-misuse-of-commercial-spyware/. - 07:55, Pall Mall process launched by France and the UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-pall-mall-process-declaration-tackling-proliferation-and-irresponsible-use-of-commercial-cyber-intrusion-capabilities/the-pall-mall-process-tackling-the-proliferation-and-irresponsible-use-of-commercial-cyber-intrusion-capabilities. - 08:09, Pegasus used to target students and members of the pro-democracy movement in Serbia: https://citizenlab.ca/research/pegasus-spyware-infection-of-serbian-activist/. - 10:48, Lena Riecke's study on emerging international governance approaches: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212473X26000635.- 13:58, NSO spending millions on lobbying: https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/nso-group-spends-millions-lobbying/. - 14:02, Intellexa activity declining: https://www.icij.org/investigations/cyprus-confidential/predator-spyware-firm-intellexa-resurgent-after-u-s-sanctions/. - 14:08, Paragon contract with ICE paused on allegations of spyware misuse: https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/usa-government-contract-with-spyware-vendor-paragon-solutions-under-review-due-to-human-rights-concerns/. - 14:25, Trump reinstates Paragon contract: https://www.accessnow.org/paragon-contract-spyware/. - 14:53, Pall Mall Process negotiating guidelines for responsible industry practices: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-france-seek-views-on-commercial-cyber-intrusion-industry-practices. - 16:15, Sentencing of Intellexa officials recently in Greece: https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1313941/high-ranking-spy-agency-officer-targets-intellexa-execs-over-illegal-wiretapping/. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the episode and guest 00:23 What is commercial spyware and how does it differ from traditional surveillance? 01:13 The capabilities and intrusiveness of commercial spyware like Pegasus 02:01 Impacts on privacy, human rights, and democratic principles 04:30 Challenges in regulating the spyware market and why states struggle 06:31 The role of democracies and autocracies in spyware proliferation 08:45 Recent regulation efforts and their effectiveness 12:44 Future prospects and what is needed to better regulate spyware 16:46 Conclusion and key takeaways The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S3 · E5
    September 9 · 20 min

    #50 Easy Prompting and Memorisation: Munich Ruling on GEMA v Suno w/ Prof. Dr. Jan Bernd Nordemann

    In this episode, we explore the implications of a landmark German court ruling on AI training and copyright law, featuring expert legal insights from Jan Bernd Nordemann. We discuss how AI models like Suno's infringe copyright, jurisdictional issues, and the evolving legal landscape for AI and intellectual property. Throughout the episode, we commented on the Munich Regional Court's ruling on GEMA v. Suno (available in German): https://www.gesetze-bayern.de/Content/Document/Y-300-Z-BECKRS-B-2026-N-17961. During our conversation, Jan also brought up a couple of cases that are relevant to the Court's ruling. Click on them directly using the links below: - 06:06, The CJEU's case law on the relevance of recognisability to determine whether we are before a reproduction, Joined Cases C-580/23 and C-795/23, Mio and Others: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A62023CA0580. - 13:42, The US Supreme Court's case Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts, Inc. v. Goldsmith et al: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/21-869_87ad.pdf. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the German court ruling on Suno AI 01:05 Facts of the case: GEMA vs Suno 02:28 How Suno trained its model using YouTube content 03:10 German copyright infringements identified in the case 04:16 Memorized copies within Suno’s system and public access 06:39 US law considerations and fair use analysis 07:43 Reproduction and memorization in AI models 09:08 Jurisdictional issues and extraterritoriality 13:28 Impact of the ruling on fair use and AI training 14:31 Thresholds for retention and legal relevance 16:00 Prompting complexity and memorization boundaries 17:16 Output filters and their legal implications 18:18 AI due diligence obligations and strict liability 19:23 Future considerations for AI liability and care duties 20:10 Closing remarks and audience engagement To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S3 · E4
    September 8 · 22 min

    #49 This is Not a Reproduction: The High Court of Delhi's ANI v. OpenAI w/ Dr. Andrés Guadamuz

    This episode explores the recent High Court of Delhi ruling on AI training and copyright infringement, featuring Andres Guadamuz, an expert in intellectual property law. We discuss jurisdiction, fair use, and the implications for global AI development. Find here the High Court of Delhi's ruling: https://www.nls.ac.in/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/ANI_vs_OPEN_AI.pdf. Here's Andres' comment on the case: https://www.technollama.co.uk/openai-wins-first-battle-in-ongoing-indian-copyright-lawsuit. Throughout the conversation, Andres remarked on a couple of related cases surrounding these same questions. Click on them directly by following the links below: - 01:50, The New York Times sues Microsoft and Meta: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/09/technology/new-york-times-openai.html. - 04:40, The Getty Images case resolved in the UK: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/Getty-Images-v-Stability-AI.pdf. - 08:30, The Bartz v. Anthropic case: https://copyrightalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Bartz-v.-Anthropic-Order.pdf. - 08:50, The Spanish court's VEGAP v Mango case: https://intellectual-property-helpdesk.ec.europa.eu/news-events/news/barcelona-court-rules-against-mango-over-use-famous-artworks-nfts-eu-trade-mark-dispute-nero-2025-06-27_en. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the Case 01:06 Commonalities and Differences in Legal Cases 04:02 Jurisdiction and Its Implications 06:57 Fair Use and Global Standards 09:58 Outputs and Evidence in the Case 15:52 The Role of LLMs vs. Search Engines 19:55 Future Implications for Copyright and AI To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S3 · E4
    September 3 · 22 min

    #48 A Jug of Settled-Down Juice: AI Guidelines on Transparency Obligations w/ Dr. João P. Quintais

    I discussed with João Pedro Quintais the European Commission's Guidelines on transparency obligations for providers and deployers of certain AI systems and the application of Article 50 of the EU AI Act more broadly. João also commented on how copyright considerations and history can make us aware of challenges that may arise in the context of the AI Act. To find the European Commission's Guidelines, see here: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/guidelines-ai-transparency-obligations. Throughout the episode, João commented on some of the complementary guidance that AI providers can also take into account when implementing watermarking. To access them directly, click on the links below: - 01:55, Code of Practice on Transparency of AI-generated Content: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/code-practice-ai-generated-content. - 06:11, The General-Purpose AI Code of Practice: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/contents-code-gpai. - 06:11, The Guidelines for providers of general-purpose AI models: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/guidelines-gpai-providers. - 11:23, Research indicating that identification of material as AI-generated can reduce its perceived accuracy: https://arxiv.org/html/2506.16202v2. - 12:27, Anthropic's approach to watermarking: https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-text-watermark. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to EU AI transparency rules 00:25 João Pedro Quintais' background and research focus 01:07 Scope and application of Article 50 of the AI Act 01:55 The necessity of Guidelines and their legal space 02:48 Difference between Guidelines and the Code of Practice 04:25 Hierarchy of AI regulation: Law, Guidelines, and Codes 05:41 Institutional influence on digital regulation 06:24 Operational details in the Guidelines and ecosystem logic 07:54 Legal and technical governance fusion in AI regulation 08:58 Transparency, labeling, and trust in AI content 10:00 Provenance versus trustworthiness in AI labeling 11:14 Impact of labeling on perceptions of AI-generated content 12:05 Familiarity with AI and perception shifts13:14 Implementation of watermarking in AI systems 15:00 Robustness and detection challenges in watermarking 16:10 Technical and normative challenges in AI marking 17:28 Copyright law, authorship, and AI outputs 19:01 AI labeling as a legal and evidentiary signal 21:06 Influence of copyright and legal language in AI regulation 22:15 Closing remarks and future discussions in AI law To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all- BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S3 · E3
    September 1 · 17 min

    #47 Visibility is Only One Dimension of Competition: The Google Shopping Case w/ Dr. Steffen Sirries

    Stemming from their paper deriving from a dataset of 1.2 million searches run by Steffen Sirries (alongside Paul Henri Püplichhuisen), we discuss how visibility is important in competition but it's not the solution to all competitive problems. We analyse such considerations from the perspective of the Google Shopping case, which Steffen is working on extensively. If you'd want to read Steffen's paper in detail, find it here: https://academic.oup.com/jcle/advance-article/doi/10.1093/joclec/nhag022/8734216.On the episode, we also remarked on the main milestones surrounding the Google Shopping case. Click on them directly via the links below: - 00:04, The European Commission issues an 890 million fine against Google for a breach of Article 6(5) DMA: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/commission-fines-google-eur890-million-breaches-digital-markets-act-2026-07-23_en.- 00:44, The European Commission's initial decision on the Google Shopping case under Article 102 TFEU: https://competition-cases.ec.europa.eu/cases/AT.39740. - 06:29, In March 2024, Google introduced the product website box: https://www.searchenginejournal.com/google-rolling-out-changes-to-shopping-searches-in-europe/511881/.Key moments00:00 Introduction to Google and the DMA enforcement00:46 Overview of Google's self-preferencing conduct01:36 Empirical findings on the DMA's effectiveness02:38 Interpreting the 20% visibility increase05:05 Distinction between product websites box and product viewer08:10 The whack-a-mole enforcement challenge08:28 Broader implications for digital markets09:41 Limits of remedies and future challenges13:21 What a compliant Google search page should look like15:05 Measuring long-term contestability and innovationTo learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com.She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128.________The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well.- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all- BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S3 · E2
    August 27 · 26 min

    #46 Cross-Sectoral and Cross-Border Cooperation in Digital Regulation w/ Dr. Belle Beems

    This episode explores the complex overlap of EU competition law, GDPR, and digital regulation, featuring Professor Belle Beams. We discuss institutional frameworks, cross-disciplinary cooperation, decentralisation, and future enforcement challenges in digital markets. Throughout the episode, Belle and I highlighted several developments that have taken place in the space of the framework of collaboration in digital regulation. Click on them directly by following the links below: - 00:50, Belle's PhD on 'The interaction between enforcers of competition law, the DMA and the GDPR. An inquiry into the coherence of enforcement across legal domains': https://repository.ubn.ru.nl/bitstream/handle/2066/327183/327183pos.pdf?sequence=4. - 01:28, The Court of Justice's bpost ruling (Case C-117/20): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62020CJ0117. - 03:09, The Court of Justice's Nordzucker ruling (Case C-151/20): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62020CJ0151. - 04:09, The Court of Justice's Meta v. Bundeskartellamt ruling (Case C-252/21): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62021CJ0252. - 11:09, The introduction of new GDPR procedural rules for cross-border cases: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinktank/en/document/EPRS_ATA(2025)777953. - 13:56, My paper on 'The Decentralisation of EU Regulation': https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6479620. - 17:40, The scrutiny of Booking.com's MFN clauses: https://ga-p.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/hotel-online-bookings-and-mfn-clauses-can-online-platforms-demand-the-best-deal.pdf. - 18:37, The Italian competition authority's case against Meta's integration of Meta AI chatbot in WhatsApp: https://en.agcm.it/en/media/press-releases/2025/12/A576. - 19:29, The Spanish competition authority's case against Booking.com for the unfair trading conditions it imposes on the hotel sector: https://www.cnmc.es/sites/default/files/5555287.pdf. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to Digital Platforms and Law 01:08 Understanding Overlaps in Legal Frameworks 03:55 The Principle of Sincere Cooperation 09:53 Challenges in Cross-Border Collaboration 12:36 Institutional Design and Enforcement 14:11 Decentralisation vs. Centralisation in Enforcement 24:56 The Concept of a European Super Regulator To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S3 · E1
    August 25 · 32 min

    #45 The Digital Omnibus, A Shift Towards Self-Regulation w/ Dr. Itxaso Domínguez de Olazábal

    In this episode, we explore the European Union's digital omnibus proposal, its implications for digital regulation, data protection, and AI. Itxaso shares her insights on deregulation, fundamental rights, and the future of digital law in Europe. Throughout the episode, Itxaso remarked on a few developments that have taken place surrounding digital regulation. Click directly on them below: - 00:22, The EU's Digital Omnibus: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/library/digital-omnibus-regulation-proposal. - 02:26, Omnibus IV: https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/publications/omnibus-iv_en. - 03:53, The Draghi report: https://commission.europa.eu/topics/competitiveness/draghi-report_en. - 06:02, The European Commission's Better Regulation Guidelines: https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-making-process/better-regulation/better-regulation-guidelines-and-toolbox_en. - 15:30, Debiasing in AI needs less (and not more) data: https://news.mit.edu/2024/researchers-reduce-bias-ai-models-while-preserving-improving-accuracy-1211. - 19:04, Anthropic buys and destroys millions of print books to source its AI models: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/aug/05/anthropic-ai-destroying-books. - 20:39, Evidence pointing to an AI bubble: https://arxiv.org/html/2606.01575v1. - 28:15, The Helsinki Statement: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/documents/reports-statements-and-letters/the-helsinki-statement-on-enhanced-clarity-support-and_en. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the Digital Omnibus 01:13 Disagreement with the European Commission on Deregulation 02:20 The Broader Political Trend of Deregulation in the EU 04:00 Impact of Omnibus on Fundamental Rights and Impact Assessments 07:19 GDPR Changes and Risks to Data Protection 13:36 AI Regulation and Data Processing in the Omnibus 16:48 The Shift in AI Data Use and Legal Uncertainty 22:34 EU Competitiveness and the Real Challenges 27:26 Supporting Meaningful Simplification and Regulation 30:21 Innovative Solutions for Privacy and Data Rights To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S2 · E45
    July 29 · 26 min

    #44 The App Store Freedom Act: The US Attempts to Regulate Digital Platforms w/ Gene Burrus

    In this episode, we explore the US App Store Freedom Act, its implications for digital competition, and how it compares to international regulations like the DMA and the Japanese Mobile Software Competition Act. Gene Burrus, a competition law expert, shares insights on legislative prospects and the future of app distribution. Find the contents of the App Store Freedom Act here: https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/3209. Throughout the conversation, Gene mentioned a couple of developments in which US policymakers have considered regulating digital markets in the past. Click on those developments below: - 02:00, The Open App Markets Act: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/2710. - 02:17, The Antitrust Investigation of the Rise and Use of Market Power Online and the Adequacy of Existing Antitrust Laws and Current Enforcement Levels: https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/issues/digital-markets-investigation. - 03:34, The American Innovation and Choice Online Act: https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/R/PDF/R47228/R47228.2.pdf. - 03:36, The Ending Platform Monopolies Act: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3825. - 04:43, The DOJ's consent decree on Microsoft: https://www.justice.gov/archive/opa/pr/2002/August/02_at_453.htm. - 05:20, The Open App Markets Act favourable vote in committee: https://www.klobuchar.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2022/2/senate-panel-advances-bill-targeting-apple-google-app-store-power. - 05:44, The App Store Freedom Act committee hearing: https://trahan.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=3818. - 10:17, Gene's op-ed in The Washington Reporter on the imposition of junk fees: https://washingtonreporter.news/op-ed-gene-burrus-the-junk-fee-congress-can-actually-cut/. - 11:07, Apple's DMA compliance workshop where it challenged the European Commission's position as the DMA's enforcer: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/events-poolpage/2025-apple-dma-compliance-workshop-2025-06-30_en. - 18:29, Apple executives recognising the faults of their app review process: https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2021/04/10/apple-iphone-app-store-fleeceware-scam-iphone-12-pro-max/. - 19:01, California's AG triggers suits against Apple and Google for so-called nudify apps: https://www.wired.com/story/san-francisco-demands-apple-and-google-delete-ai-nudify-apps-from-app-stores/. - 25:05, The US Google Search saga: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/department-justice-wins-significant-remedies-against-google. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the US App Store Freedom Act and digital regulation landscape 01:01 Gene Burrus introduces the main features of the App Store Freedom Act 01:45 Comparison with European DMA and Japanese approaches 04:10 Legislative support and bipartisan prospects for the Act 07:47 Scope of the Act and its potential as a proof of concept 10:01 US regulatory stance and international coordination challenges 12:55 Addressing security concerns and malicious compliance fears 14:53 How the Act could open up alternative app distribution channels 20:00 Enforcement mechanisms: FTC, state AGs, and private enforcement 26:46 Global coordination and preventing regulatory fragmentation 30:04 Final thoughts on the future of digital competition regulation To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S2 · E43
    July 27 · 26 min

    #43 A Brazilian Digital Regulation Soon in the Books w/ Rafael Rossini Parisi

    In this episode, I interview Rafael Rossini Parisi about the latest developments in Brazil's digital markets regulation, exploring its objectives, legislative process, and implications for competition and consumer protection. Find the current version of the Brazilian bill here: https://www.camara.leg.br/proposicoesWeb/fichadetramitacao?idProposicao=2562481&utm_source=chatgpt.com. In the episode, Rafa touched upon a few developments surrounding the current regulatory environment in Brazil. Click on them directly below: - 01:55, The proposed bill in 2025: https://www.camara.leg.br/proposicoesWeb/prop_mostrarintegra?codteor=3159491&filename=Tramitacao-14-PL-4675-2025. - 02:49, The Ministry of Finance's study on the need for a digital markets regulation: https://www.gov.br/fazenda/pt-br/assuntos/noticias/2024/outubro/propostas-para-aprimorar-a-defesa-da-concorrencia-no-ambiente-de-plataformas-digitais-sao-detalhadas-em-coletiva. - 03:33, The Brazilian Competition Act: https://cdn.cade.gov.br/portal-ingles/topics/leniency%20program/Applicable%20Laws/law-no-12529-2011-english-version-from-18-05-2012.pdf. - 07:21, Political pressure to get the bill passed before the general election: https://newsletters.brazilian.report/p/copying-europe-dma-digital-markets. - 08:22, The Digital Statute of the Child and the Adolescent: https://www.gov.br/mdh/pt-br/assuntos/noticias/2025/novembro/brasil-apresenta-avancos-em-seguranca-digital-da-infancia-e-lanca-eca-digital-em-ingles-durante-cupula-social-do-g20-na-africa-do-sul/eca-digital-ing-v2.pdf. - 09:25, CADE's Apple Store case: https://www.gov.br/cade/en/matters/news/cade-signs-a-cease-and-desist-agreement-with-apple. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the Brazilian Digital Markets Bill 01:32 Background and Context of the Legislation 03:21 Key Features and Influences of the Bill 07:36 Legislative Process and Political Dynamics 10:03 Civil Society Support and Broader Regulatory Agenda 12:44 Designation of Systemic Relevance Agents 16:37 Designations and Review Processes 18:51 Obligations and Consumer Protection Aspects 21:53 Inter-agency Cooperation and Data Sharing 24:39 Information Exchange and Confidentiality 26:39 Remedies and Compliance Mechanisms 28:49 Monitoring and Market Investigations 32:17 Conclusion and Final Remarks To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S2 · E43
    July 23 · 43 min

    #42 The Law of the Exceptional: The CJEU's Google Android Ruling w/ Prof. Pablo Ibáñez Colomo

    In this episode, I discuss with Prof. Pablo Ibáñez Colomo the implications of the Court of Justice's Google Android ruling when put in relation to concepts such as competition on the merits. We also get the opportunity to determine whether competition law deviates in digital markets and why this approach is consistent with the previous case law. Find the CJEU's Google Android ruling here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62022CJ0738. Throughout the episode, Pablo went through a number of cases that serve as the background to the Google Android ruling. Click on them directly here: - 00:49, The European Commission's sanctioning decision in 2018: https://competition-cases.ec.europa.eu/cases/AT.40099. - 00:51, The General Court's ruling of the case: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62018TJ0604. - 07:22, The CJEU's Servier saga (Case C-201/19 P): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62019CJ0201. - 12:42, The CJEU's Android Auto ruling (Case C-233/23): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:62023CJ0233. - 21:42, The CJEU's Deutsche Telekom ruling (Case C-280/08 P): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62008CJ0280. - 22:33, My post on the EC's interpretation of Article 6(11) DMA via specification proceedings: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/european-commission-hits-nail-head-its-dma-decision-ribera-mart%C3%ADnez-6wv4e/?trackingId=XZLJXgRtQ4mSMEoE8lv1yQ%3D%3D. - 24:15, The CJEU's Post Danmark case (Case C-23/14): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62014CJ0023. - 24:33, The CJEU's Google Shopping ruling (Case C-48/22 P): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62022CJ0048. - 25:19, The CJEU's Servizio Elettrico Nazionale ruling (Case C-377/20): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62020CJ0377. - 25:41, The CJEU's SuperLeague ruling (Case C-333/21): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62021CJ0333. - 26:19, Fernando Castillo's paper on tying and its relationship with competition on the merits: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4395401. - 27:41, German scholars in the 1950s concluded that competition on the merits cannot be made operational: https://ejpe.org/journal/article/download/688/539/1890. - 33:09, The CJEU's Qualcomm ruling (Case C-466/19 P): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62019CJ0466. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the Google Android Case and Guest 02:00 Ecosystems in Competition Law: Biological vs Digital 03:58 Implications of Ecosystem Balance on Legal Standards 05:57 The Role of Monetization Strategies in the Case 08:14 The Role of Causality and Counterfactuals in Analysis 11:10 Anti-Fragmentation Obligations and Market Strategies 13:00 Objective Justification and Ecosystem Sustainability 14:57 Principles of Digital Market Regulation and Exceptionalism 16:47 The Court’s Approach to Digital Market Dominance 19:12 Implications for Competition Law and Digital Ecosystems 21:10 Market Dynamics: Natural Monopolies and Network Effects 23:04 Refusal to Deal Doctrine in Digital Markets 24:59 The Exceptional Nature of Digital Market Cases 26:49 Historical Context: Telecoms and Digital Markets 29:11 Competition on the Merits and Tying Practices 31:49 Operational Challenges in Competition Law Enforcement 34:10 The Future of Competition Law in the Digital Era To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128.The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S2 · E41
    July 18 · 27 min

    #41 You Own It, You Decide How it Gets Licensed w/ James Rosewell

    In this episode, James Rosewell discusses innovative licensing schemes for content used by AI proprietors and the legal and regulatory landscape shaping the future of web publishing and AI content use. If you're a web publisher and you're interested in signing the search-only contract, find it available on the Movement for an Open Web site: https://movementforanopenweb.com/publishers-take-control-over-ai-harvesting-with-new-contract/. James and I touched upon different developments and milestones for the transformation of search and the Internet more broadly. Click on them directly through the links below: - 00:18, The CMA's conduct requirements against Google relating to the use of content in AI Overviews: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-secures-fairer-deal-for-publishers-and-improves-google-search-services-in-uk. - 15:05, The search-only contract is also available in GitHub: https://github.com/movementforanopenweb/terms-documents. - 17:44, Proprietary agreements between publishers and AI companies: https://digiday.com/media/a-timeline-of-the-major-deals-between-publishers-and-ai-tech-companies-in-2025/. - 18:00, Spur Coalition aiming to publish best practices relating to licensing in AI: https://www.spurcoalition.org/. - 19:35, The piracy debate around Pirate Bay and Napster that took place in the early 2000s: https://www.decodedmagazine.com/the-rise-and-fall-of-music-piracy-how-napster-and-limewire-almost-destroyed-the-industry/. - 19:52, The Press Gazette article written by Chris Dicker documenting that blocking bots is not effective: https://pressgazette.co.uk/publishers/publishers-versus-bots-trusted-reviews-ceo-on-a-fight-for-survival-with-llms/. - 26:10, The CMA's 2020 report on digital markets (executive summary): https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/online-platforms-and-digital-advertising-market-study. - 26:27, IAB UK's report documenting the impact of the cost of advertising in UK households: https://www.lexisnexis.co.uk/legal/news/iab-releases-economic-impact-of-digital-advertising-to-uk-economy-study-findings. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to AI and Search Engine Dynamics 02:45 CMA Remedies and Publisher Opt-Outs 11:23 Proposed Licensing Solutions for Publishers 17:33 Challenges for Small vs. Large Publishers 23:24 The Future of AI and Content Ownership To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S2 · E42
    July 16 · 23 min

    #40 Having All Your Eggs in One Basket: The Situation of the Cloud Computing Market w/ Max von Thun

    In this episode, I sat down with Max von Thun, Director at Open Markets Institute Europe, to discuss the situation of the cloud computing market. He set forth in very few words why we should care about this market and what the main problems are in the market's current configuration. I hope you enjoy the episode! Throughout the episode, we mentioned some developments that have taken place surrounding the cloud market. Click on them directly below: - 00:08, The EC's qualitative designations under the DMA against Amazon and Microsoft and its additional market investigation on the adequacy of capturing cloud: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/commission-launches-market-investigations-cloud-computing-services-under-digital-markets-act-2025-11-18_en. - 03:11, Amazon's, Microsoft's, and Google's dominance in the cloud market: https://www.statista.com/chart/18819/worldwide-market-share-of-leading-cloud-infrastructure-service-providers/?srsltid=AfmBOorFbl4QKnpM7sqK5L7LsFSx9wa7pSbd_YWZRw0CC2S7ubAPdhFC. - 04:11, The CMA's cloud services market investigation: https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/cloud-services-market-investigation. - 04:39, Cloud outages created by dependence on a few players: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/oct/20/amazon-web-services-aws-outage-hits-dozens-websites-apps. - 06:50, Amazon spun its cloud business off the computing resources used from its e-commerce website: https://www.wired.com/story/why-hard-escape-amazons-long-reach/. - 07:34, The European Commission's work on cloud: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/cloud-and-ai-development-act. - 07:38, The Dutch competition authority's market study into cloud services: https://www.acm.nl/en/publications/market-study-cloud-services. - 07:40, The French competition authority's market study into cloud computing: https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/press-release/cloud-computing-autorite-de-la-concurrence-issues-its-market-study-competition-cloud. - 08:22, The Data Act: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2023/2854/oj/eng. - 11:23, The European Commission's approval of the Google/Wiz merger: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_333. - 12:53, Google's partnerships surrounding its cloud business: https://newsroom.accenture.com/news/2026/accenture-edge-and-google-cloud-bring-scalable-agentic-ai-solutions-to-mid-market-companies. - 15:42, The US' Antitrust Subcommittee's reports touching on the cloud market: http://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/issues/digital-markets-investigation. - 16:13, Anecdotal evidence by which users are more prone towards Amazon's proprietary cloud: https://yalelawjournal.org/pdf/e.710.Khan.805_zuvfyyeh.pdf. - 16:45, Open Markets Institute paper on cloud: https://www.openmarketsinstitute.org/publications/levelling-the-playing-field-for-cloud-services-omi-welcomes-eu-move-to-bring-amazon-and-microsoft-under-dma-gatekeeper-rules. - 21:30: The European Commission's DMA review: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_914. - 22:05, The European Commission's Meta case, where it imposed interim measures: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_1276. - 22:28, The need for structural remedies, as set out by Open Markets Institute: https://www.openmarketsinstitute.org/publications/the-structural-directive-vindicating-the-high-purpose-of-the-antitrust-laws. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to Cloud Market Regulation 02:29 Understanding Hyperscales and Market Dynamics 10:03 The Role of the European Commission 12:25 Implications of the DMA on Cloud Services 18:47 Future of Cloud Regulation and Enforcement To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com.The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S2 · E40
    July 8 · 24 min

    #39 A Gatekeeper's Opening Gambit: Antitrust and DMA Compliance w/ Oliver Bethell

    In this episode, Oliver Bethell from Google discusses the future of search in the age of AI, European regulatory approaches, including the DMA, and the balance between innovation and privacy. We explore how AI is transforming search behaviour and the path forward for fair competition. Throughout the episode, Oli and I touched upon many different developments and facts surrounding Google's business. Click on them below to access them directly: - 06:57, The European Commission's case under Article 102 TFEU relating to Google's integration of AI Overviews and its processing of web publisher content: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/da/ip_25_2964. - 10:07, Google's AI licensing pilot: https://www.pymnts.com/news/artificial-intelligence/2026/google-tells-news-publishers-to-share-content-for-ai-training-or-lose-fees/. - 10:09, Google's deal with 200 news publishers: https://blog.google/company-news/outreach-and-initiatives/google-news-initiative/google-news-showcase/. - 10:14, Google's Extended News Program and Previews Program: https://blog.google/company-news/inside-google/around-the-globe/google-europe/more-data-about-news-results-eu/. - 12:12, The European Commission's DMA review report: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_914. - 13:06, The consensus around productivity gains generated by genAI: https://www.oecd.org/en/blogs/2025/07/unlocking-productivity-with-generative-ai-evidence-from-experimental-studies.html. - 13:13, GenAI is estimated to add up to €1.2 trillion to the European Union's GDP over the next decade: https://blog.google/company-news/inside-google/around-the-globe/google-europe/building-europes-ai-future-together/. - 13:43, ChatGPT's rapid uptake in user adoption when it was launched: https://www.reuters.com/technology/chatgpt-sets-record-fastest-growing-user-base-analyst-note-2023-02-01/. - 17:42, The European Commission's 6(11) preliminary measures on access to search data: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/dma100209-consultation-proposed-measures-google-search-data-sharing_en. - 17:49, Privacy experts contesting the Commission's approach under the 6(11) specification proceedings: https://ecipe.org/insights/dma-proceedings-against-google/. - 18:16, Gatekeepers raising privacy as an issue that is set at odds with the DMA's application: https://agenceurope.eu/en/bulletin/article/13902/8/expert-warns-apple-and-google-are-citing-privacy-and-security-risks-in-their-lobbying-against-dma. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to AI and Search Transformation 01:50 The Future of Search: Evolving User Expectations 07:24 Regulatory Landscape: The Role of the DMA 12:43 AI and Competition: Balancing Innovation and Regulation 18:29 Privacy Concerns in the Age of AI 22:38 Conclusion: Navigating the Future of Digital Markets To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S2 · E19
    June 26 · 14 min

    #38 Competing in the Very Domain Through Which We Recognise Minds w/ Dr. Valerio Capraro

    In this episode, I interviewed Valerio Capraro about the concept of LLMorphism, its implications on human cognition, and the societal impacts of AI language models. We explored how AI influences our self-perception and the importance of epistemic literacy. To read through Valerio's newly introduced notion of LLMorphism, see here: https://arxiv.org/abs/2605.05419. In the episode, Valerio mentioned a couple of other works and trends applying to the LLMorphism theory. Click on them below to access them directly: - 03:20, His work on 'Epistemological Fault Lines Between Human and Artificial Intelligence', co-authored with Walter Quattrociocchi and Matjaz Perc: https://doi.org/10.48550/arXiv.2512.19466. - 08:22, Scholars discussing mecanomorphism back in the 1940s: https://doi.org/10.1080/03081079.2014.883743. - 09:26, The perspective of Taylorism on replaceable humans: https://www.emerald.com/jmh/article-pdf/30/2/141/9579783/jmh-04-2024-305.pdf. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to LLMorphism and AI's Impact on Human Cognition 01:47 Understanding LLMorphism: The Cognitive Bias of Machines 04:52 The Consequences of LLMorphism on Human Identity 07:17 Historical Context: Technology and Self-Understanding 08:33 The Threat of Replaceability in the Workforce 10:39 Social Implications: Power Dynamics and Human Perception 11:51 Navigating LLMorphism: The Role of Understanding and Literacy To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S2 · E38
    June 20 · 24 min

    #37 The Munich Court's Ruling on AI Overviews on the Lips of Publishers w/ Fayrouze Masmi-Dazi

    In this episode, we explore the landmark Munich court ruling on AI liability, its implications for Google and content publishers, and the broader regulatory landscape for AI in Europe. Fayrouze Masmi-Dazi shares expert insights on legal distinctions between search engines and hosting platforms and future challenges in AI regulation. The video exhaustively reviews and comments on the Munich Regional Court's ruling relating to Google Overviews, which you'll find here: https://les-italy.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/42-O-14139-24-Endurteil-en-GB.pdf. Aside from the judgment, we also touched upon several developments surrounding the topic. Click directly on them below: - 04:10, The French competition authority's intervention in relation to Google's agreements with news publishers: https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/article/related-rights-autorite-fines-google-eu250-million. - 05:14, The European Commission's investigation on AI Overviews under Article 102 TFEU: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/da/ip_25_2964. - 05:16, The CMA's measures relating to publisher content on AI Overviews: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-secures-fairer-deal-for-publishers-and-improves-google-search-services-in-uk. - 06:24, The Court of Justice's ruling in relation to the liability of information services (Case C-190/24 Coyote System): https://infocuria.curia.europa.eu/tabs/affair?sort=AFF_NUM-DESC&searchTerm=%22C-190%2F24%22&publishedId=C-190%2F24. - 16:20, Google's announcement of the Privacy Sandbox: https://blog.google/products-and-platforms/products/chrome/building-a-more-private-web/. - 16:25, The CMA's investigation into Google's Privacy Sandbox: https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/investigation-into-googles-privacy-sandbox-browser-changes. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to AI Liability and the Munich Ruling 03:18 Significance of the Ruling for AI and Publishers 07:40 Distinction Between AI Overview and Traditional Search Engines 12:39 Legal Implications of Untrue Statements and Liability 17:14 Impact on Publishers and Future Litigation 21:00 Regulatory Framework for AI in Europe To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  • S2 · E37
    June 18 · 26 min

    #36 Regulators Must Go Outside of their Regulatory Silos w/ Sebastião Barros Vale

    In this episode, I host Sebastião to discuss the complex interplay between the GDPR, DMA, and AI regulation within the EU. He explores how regulators can cooperate across silos, the challenges of enforcement, and the future of cross-regulatory guidelines. Throughout the conversation, we covered different aspects of the digital rulebook requiring coordination: - 00:17, The European Commission's specification proceedings relating to Google's AI features: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_202. - 01:48, The EDPB's and EC's Draft Joint Guidelines on the interplay between the DMA and the GDPR: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/our-work-tools/documents/public-consultations/2025/joint-guidelines-interplay-between-digital_en. - 04:49, The EDPB set to issue Joint Guidelines on the interface between competition law and the GDPR: https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/about/news/commission-services-and-edpb-will-start-joint-work-guidance-interplay-between-eu-competition-law-and-2026-04-28_en. - 04:53, The EDPB's work with the EC on Joint Guidelines relating to the AI Act and its interplay with the GDPR: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/system/files/2026-01/edpb_edps_jointopinion_202601_proposal_ai-omnibus_en.pdf. - 05:06, The EDPB's Joint Guidelines with the EDPS on the Anti-Money Laundering Act: https://www.edps.europa.eu/data-protection/our-work/our-work-by-type/edps-edpb-joint-opinions_en. - 07:23, The EDPB's efforts in issuing Joint Guidelines relating to the DSA/GDPR interface with the EC: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/system/files/2025-09/edpb_guidelines_202503_interplay-dsa-gdpr_v1_en.pdf. - 07:48, The EDPB's collaboration with the European Board for Digital Services in the DSA context: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/news/news/2025/interplay-between-dsa-and-gdpr-edpb-adopts-guidelines_en. - 08:30, The Court of Justice's ruling relating to the principle of sincere cooperation (Case C-252/21, Meta Platforms Inc and Others v Bundeskartellamt): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62021CJ0252. - 11:51, The EC's analysis of the Google/Fitbit merger: https://ec.europa.eu/competition/mergers/cases1/202120/m9660_3314_3.pdf. - 11:58, The EDPB's statement on the Google/Fitbit merger: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/sites/default/files/files/file1/edpb_statement_2020_privacyimplicationsofmergers_en.pdf. - 12:04, Commissioner Vestager's statement that the EDPB could not intervene in the Google/Fitbit merger due to the lack of a legal basis: https://subscriber.politicopro.com/article/2020/02/vestager-privacy-regulators-wont-be-involved-in-google-fitbit-review-3976959. - 12:17, The EDPS' call for a horizontal legal basis that provides the possibility to exchange confidential information between authorities: https://www.edps.europa.eu/system/files/2022-11/2022-11-11-opinion-on-european-media-freedom-act_en.pdf. - 12:54, The stakeholder contributions to the Digital Fitness Check: https://data.europa.eu/en/news-events/news/eu-digital-omnibus-update-simplifying-europes-digital-rulebook. - 16:00, The European Commission's specification proceedings under Article 6(11) DMA against Google: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_202. - 17:34, The Court of Justice's recent case law on the principle of ne bis in idem (Case C-117/20, bpost SA v Autorité belge de la concurrence): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62020CJ0117. - 20:22, The EDPB's work in fleshing out the notion of anonymisation: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/our-work-tools/our-documents/topic/anonymization_en. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to Data Protection and DMA 01:20 Interplay Between GDPR and DMA 08:12 Consultation and Cooperation Among Regulators 15:03 Enforcement Fragmentation Risks 22:38 AI Integration with DMA and GDPR The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

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