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Religion & Spirituality

Mormon Land

The Salt Lake Tribune

Mormon Land explores the contours and complexities of LDS news. It’s hosted by award-winning religion writer Peggy Fletcher Stack and Salt Lake Tribune managing editor David Noyce.

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  • 28 episodes
  • weekly
  • Avg 41 min
  • English

Episodes 28

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  • #457
    September 16 · 30 min

    McKay Coppins on sports betting for Latter-day Saints | Episode 457

    “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is opposed to gambling. … [It] is motivated by a desire to get something for nothing. This desire is spiritually destructive. It leads participants away from the Savior’s teachings.” With those words, the faith’s position is clear. No gambling — of any type. So when The Atlantic staked staff writer McKay Coppins, a practicing Latter-day Saint, $10,000 to place bets while investigating the booming business of sports betting, he felt the need to consult with his bishop. Since the money wouldn’t be his own and the assignment was for research, the wary church leader gave Coppins the go sign but added a caution: “Be careful.” During the ensuing months, Coppins learned the wisdom behind that warning as he came to understand the addictive nature of gambling and the odds against winning at it. “I started with $10,000,” he said. “I ended with less than $200. I lost, basically, all of it.” On this week’s show, he discusses his article, titled “Sucker: My year as a degenerate gambler,” along with what he discovered about the industry, himself and the implications of sports betting for Latter-day Saints.

  • #456
    September 9 · 42 min

    LDS service missionaries confront a whole new challenge: immigration | Episode 456

    Scott Howell is a well-known figure among Utah Democrats. He served for a decade in the state Senate and was twice the Democratic nominee for the U.S. Senate. During the past dozen years, though, Howell donned a different mantle: service missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He and his wife, Linda, spent their days teaching workshops on self-reliance, addressing the problems of homelessness, helping those living on the margins get the care they need, even helping a toothless member get dentures. On this week’s show, the Howells discuss the church’s program, its challenges and rewards, and what they learned along the way.

  • #455
    September 2 · 31 min

    Sex for older single, divorced and widowed Latter-day Saints | Episode 455

    Sexual standards set by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints seem clear — no sex before marriage, total fidelity during marriage. Guidelines for sexual activity are set out for young Latter-day Saints in publications like “For the Strength of Youth.” But what about older singles who have never wed or those whose marriages end in divorce or death? How do they then navigate the possibility of intimacy? Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, a well-known Latter-day Saint sex therapist and author of “That We Might Have Joy: Desire, Divinity & Intimate Love,” addresses older singles as they encounter complex realities that don’t fit neatly into a pamphlet. She talks about these realities and how to understand the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.

  • #454
    August 26 · 40 min

    Shorter lessons. Less foyer time. Will new Sunday schedule lead to a ‘drive-thru’ church? | Episode 454

    Starting in September, the Sabbath experience will change for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints around the world. Services each Sunday will feature all of the faith’s traditional classes for adults and youths, rather than every other week. That means an hourlong sacrament meeting, the faith’s main worship gathering, followed by 25 minutes of Sunday school for adults and teens, and then 25 minutes for all-male priesthood classes, along with women’s Relief Society and Young Women classes. Children’s Primary will remain 55 minutes long. Essentially, church leaders are cramming classes and meetings that used to take three hours into the two-hour block the faith adopted in 2019. Latter-day Saints see allowing men, women and teens to gather each week in their groups as a plus. But members worry about the 25-minute classes. Is that enough lesson time for meaningful discussion and deep gospel and scripture study? On this week’s show, Cynthia Winward, co-host of the Latter-day Saint podcast “At Last She Said It,” and Michael David Huston, a contributor for the Latter-day Saint blog By Common Consent, discuss the Sunday shift.

  • #453
    August 19 · 28 min

    The LDS Church’s retention rate may fall even further | Episode 453

    The on-again, off-again debate about retention in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is, most definitely, on — again. And in a big way. The latest round began with a report by BYU Studies, which found a number of positive signs of high religiosity among members. But it also noted that retention among U.S. Latter-day Saints has plunged from 82% in the heady 1980s to about 50% today. Stories appeared in The Salt Lake Tribune and the church-owned Deseret News, followed by a post from statistician Ryan Burge under the headline “The LDS Church Has a Retention Problem,” pointing to a 54% rate. Religion News Service columnist Jana Riess weighed in on the issue, and her commentary spurred a pair of responses from BYU researchers and a number of entries on Mormon blogs. Of particular concern to Riess, who is a Latter-day Saint, is the even lower retention rate among young women and the remarkable reversal that shows women (especially younger ones) are now more likely to leave the faith than men. On this week’s show, Riess, author of the forthcoming book “Leaving Mormonism: Who Is Exiting The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—and Why,” discusses this data debate, what it means for the overall church, and why more Latter-day Saint women appear to be struggling with staying in the fold.

  • #452
    August 12 · 49 min

    Exploring the church's case against John Dehlin's "Mormon Stories" | Episode 452

    After a failed attempt at a mediation, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints sued the influential podcast “Mormon Stories,” known for its criticism of the faith and its leaders. In their complaint, church attorneys alleged trademark infringement. They argued that the show’s use of the term “Mormon,” combined with church-trademarked visuals as well as copyright images, could lead some listeners to believe the podcast is affiliated with the global faith of 17.8 million members. Host and founder John Dehlin, excommunicated in 2015, changed his branding visuals to draw a starker contrast from those of the church but drew the line at scrapping the “Mormon” moniker, which he has used for more than 20 years. His answer to the lawsuit maintained that the term “belongs to the public — including the members of the over 400 different Mormon sects currently existing nationwide that trace their heritage back to the founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith.” On this week’s show, Cara Gagliano, senior attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation focused on trademark, copyright and free speech issues, and Latter-day Saint historian and writer Kristine Haglund discuss case, along with the legal, cultural and historical relevance of the term “Mormon.” (Gagliano’s Electronic Frontier Foundation has filed an amicus brief supporting Dehlin’s “Mormon Stories” and asking that the lawsuit be dismissed.)

  • #452
    August 9 · 55 min

    'Mormons in Media' crossover: Watching 'The Altar' so you don't have to

    On this crossover episode between ‘Mormon Land’ and ‘Mormons in Media, ’ Rebbie and Nicole are joined by Meg Walter, host of the ‘Hive Mind’ podcast. There is a new season of a Provo "dating show" that the three of them watch and discuss. This is truly an act of public service, so you can cringe with us about not only the new generation of dating, but the new generation of dating in Provo without having to watch it yourself.

  • #451
    August 5 · 1 hr 1 min

    ‘My mom cried and my dad went silent,’ says gay son of famed LDS composer | Episode 451

    Jeff McLean grew up as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Heber City. As the son of renowned Latter-day Saint composer and playwright Michael McLean, faith and music were large parts of Jeff’s life. From his earliest memories, Jeff recalls his father’s stardom and the expectations of being his son. But he never anticipated the struggle of trying to reconcile his faith and his sexuality. After serving a church mission, entering a brief marriage to another man, and battling a drug addiction, Jeff finally gathered the courage to come home and confront the people he thought he had lost long ago: his parents. His new book — co-written with his father, Michael, and therapist Brad Reedy, and titled “Stay in the Room: How a Gay Son and a Mormon Father Found Themselves and Each Other” — shares the insightful story of how this family found healing and common ground. Told through three voices, the memoir shows the challenging facets of family life, fatherhood and faith. Jeff shares how he found a place in life where he could express himself fully, all while feeling the love of God. Michael recounts how the Spirit led him to hold on to his son during his moments of pain. And Reedy offers insights for families navigating the tensions in faith, family and identity. On this week’s show, Jeff and Michael McLean discuss the dynamic changes in their familial relationships, the impact of growing up Latter-day Saint as an LGBTQ+ individual, how parents can respond when their children’s identity challenges their beliefs, and what reconciliation really looks like.

  • #449
    July 22 · 41 min

    His scribe’s diaries provide further evidence of Joseph Smith’s secret polygamy | Episode 449

    William Clayton is likely known to most members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the author of the beloved pioneer hymn, “Come, Come, Ye Saints.” To historians, though, Clayton was a key figure in Mormonism’s beginnings, especially during the years in Nauvoo, Illinois. He served as secretary and scribe for church founder Joseph Smith, keeping a detailed diary of all the happenings — and controversies — during that pivotal period. He recorded Smith dictating passages in the faith’s Doctrine and Covenants, including the section about polygamy, or “plural marriage,” as it was known. For more than a century, the church kept a tight lid on Clayton’s journals, allowing only select scholars access to them. But next year the Utah-based faith is publishing the full record, with careful annotations, through Yale University Press. Even before the publication, however, Clayton’s account has been questioned by those who do not believe Smith practiced polygamy. On this week’s show, Matthew Grow, managing director of the Church History Department, and Matthew McBride, director of publications for the department, discuss Clayton, his journals, what they say — and don’t say — about polygamy, and day-to-day life in Nauvoo.

  • #448
    July 15 · 52 min

    About Brazil's Latter-day Saints | Episode 448

    Brazilian Helvécio Martins was the first Black general authority in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He was named a dozen years after the Utah-based faith ended its 126-year priesthood/temple ban in 1978. His son Marcus Martins had just turned 19 and thus, by most accounts, became the church’s first Black missionary after the change. The younger Martins went on to earn a master’s degree in organizational behavior and a doctorate in sociology of religion, race and ethnic relations. Eventually, he became chair of religious education at Brigham Young University-Hawaii. He has served as a mission president, twice as bishop, and as a full-time senior missionary with his wife, Mirian. All this time, Marcus Martins has remained keenly interested in the politics and sociology of Mormonism. He has addressed how geopolitical, sociocultural and technological trends have affected missionary and temple work. As he prepares to embark on his third church mission in Brazil — which recently surpassed Mexico as having more Latter-day Saints than any other nation outside the U.S. — Martins discusses why Brazilians have embraced this American-born faith and how they view U.S. culture, traditions and politics?

  • #447
    July 8 · 40 min

    The search for what Joseph Smith looked like and why it matters | Episode 447

    “As a Latter-day Saint artist, Joseph Brickey had painted church founder Joseph Smith dozens of times. So he was naturally skeptical in 2022, when he first saw headlines about a recently discovered daguerreotype that was reported to be the only known photo of Smith. He had studied extensively the human form, including facial structures. He had seen other photos making similar claims that were easily dismissed as frauds. So he cautiously delved into more research about the new find and now, after four years of careful study comparing it to Smith’s death mask and reading primary documents describing Mormonism’s most famous leader, he is convinced it is the real Joseph. And he has crafted a new sculpture and painted a new portrait based not on the old images but on the daguerreotype. On this week’s show, Brickey, co-author of the forthcoming book and documentary “Brother Joseph Again: Restoring the Visual Image of Joseph Smith Jr.,” talks about his research of the daguerreotype, his latest artwork of Smith, and how it better reflects his view of the Mormon prophet. He is joined by art historian Jenny Champoux, who explains the human fascination with faces and why it matters to believers what Smith looked like.

  • #446
    July 1 · 37 min

    Why this past LDS anti-communist zealot is relevant today | Episode 446

    There was a time in the 1960s when W. Cleon Skousen, who died in 2006 at 92, was a widely known and controversial conservative figure in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Skousen was a popular speaker, teacher and writer, whose books about scriptures reflected a literal, nonmodernist approach to the Bible. He was a zealous anti-communist who freely mixed his Mormonism with his political views. He worked for a time as a special agent for the FBI and later as Salt Lake City’s police chief. His books — including “The First 2,000 Years” and “The Naked Communist” — became ubiquitous in Latter-day Saint homes as members grappled with the Cold War and predictions of an imminent apocalypse. On this week’s show, Latter-day Saint historian Benjamin Park, who is working on a biography of Skousen, discusses the man’s early beginnings and why his works are finding an unexpected audience among President Donald Trump’s supporters today.

  • #445
    June 24 · 57 min

    How LDS of all backgrounds can integrate African American spirituals into worship | Episode 445

    Earlier this month, general authority Seventy historian Kyle McKay apologized for remarks he made at a regional worship service in Oklahoma. In his controversial comments, McKay, the official historian for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, briefly reenacted a racist rendition of the African American spiritual “This Little Light of Mine,” which he described as “a song where white people try to sing like Black people.” In his apology, he said, “My words have caused offense and injury, and put a blight on an otherwise wonderful weekend.” This episode raises larger questions about how Latter-day Saint congregations can or should respectfully incorporate not only this song but also other African American songs recently added to the church’s official hymnbook. These week’s show features two Black Latter-day Saint musicians: Kimberly Applewhite Teitter, a clinical psychologist and the assistant director for the Debra Bonner Unity Gospel Choir, and Krispin Banks, a musician, songwriter and podcaster who believes music can unite believers across cultures and bring people closer to Jesus Christ.

  • #444
    June 17 · 39 min

    The beliefs and battles of Marion D. Hanks | Episode 444

    There was a time in the 1960s and ’70s, when Marion Duff Hanks was better known than almost any other Latter-day Saint leader. The boyish, handsome, charismatic and deeply literate Hanks was tapped in 1953 at age 31 as a general authority in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and was not released from full-time service in the faith until 1992. “Duff” (as his friends called him) was beloved for his winning ways as a speaker and teacher, his rapport with teens, and his ability to discuss Shakespeare, popular television shows, the scriptures, newspaper stories, ancient history and contemporary issues. Members also smiled at the light-colored suits he sometimes donned for General Conferences amid a sea of black. He was the mission president to two future apostles (Jeffrey R. Holland and Quentin L. Cook) and a groundbreaking historian (D. Michael Quinn) — and loved all his charges. At the same time, Hanks, who died in 2011, was a “progressive” before many Latter-day Saints even knew what the word meant. He spoke of Christ and social justice, for example, and reached out to those on the margins of the church — which made him a hero and mentor to writers like Carol Lynn Pearson and activists like Warner Woodworth. Yet few modern members know of Hanks’ extraordinary life. Last year, Hanks’ son, Richard Hanks, wrote a biography of his father, “To Be a Friend of Christ: The Life of Marion D. Hanks,” drawing on otherwise unavailable primary sources — journals, correspondence, notebooks and recordings. And the Utah-based faith recently made a ton of Hanks’ papers publicly available. On this week’s show, Richard Hanks discusses his father’s life, and what his work meant for the church and future generations.

  • #443
    June 10 · 30 min

    Why many evangelicals don't see Latter-day Saints as Christians | Episode 443

    For about a decade, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been in a costly rebrand aimed in part at shoring up its bona fides as a Christian denomination. Not everyone is convinced, including, it appears, inside the federal government. Late last week, the U.S. Department of Defense, helmed by conservative evangelical Pete Hegseth, issued a new, vastly pared down list of codes for religions recognized by its Chaplain Corps. The Utah-based faith made the cut but with a catch. As the all-Republican and Latter-day Saint delegation from the Beehive State complained on social media, the church was not tagged as “Christian.” Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant denominations, yes. Not Latter-day Saints. The government, it seemed, had weighed in on a long-standing theological debate, and not in Temple Square’s favor. The department has since reissued the list, removing the “Christian” tag entirely. But the debate continues to whirl. Joseph DuWors is a retired Army major and chaplain, Latter-day Saint convert and doctoral candidate in Mormon studies at Claremont Graduate University. Nathaniel Wiewora is an associate professor of history at Harding University in Arkansas, and the author of the 2024 book “Sins of Christendom: Anti-Mormonism and the Making of Antebellum Evangelicalism.” They unpacked the controversy — its historical roots and implications — in the latest episode of “Mormon Land.”

  • #442
    June 3 · 36 min

    Poet Carol Lynn Pearson on how she left 'parts' of the church | Episode 442

    Carol Lynn Pearson, renowned Latter-day Saint poet, playwright and activist, began keeping a nearly daily diary when she was a senior at Brigham Young High School in 1956. And she never stopped. The first of her four volumes, which is out now, reads like a chronicle of Mormonism’s intellectual history from the 1960s through 1980s. Pearson, who grew up in Utah and now lives in California, comments on the battle over civil rights and the Equal Rights Amendment, as well as the issues of patriarchy and polygamy in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Her first book of poetry, “Beginnings,” sold an astounding 150,000 copies, making her one of Mormonism’s earliest celebrities. The feisty writer went on to produce several more bestsellers, including “The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy” and “No More Goodbyes: Circling the Wagons Around Our Gay Loved Ones.” Pearson is a lively storyteller as she recounts conversations with top Latter-day Saint leaders, including church President Dallin Oaks (whom she knew when he led Brigham Young University) and longtime Relief Society General President Belle Spafford. And she movingly describes in “Goodbye, I Love You,” falling in love with Gerald Pearson, having children with him, letting him go to live as a gay man, and welcoming him back to care for him as he died of AIDS.

  • #441
    May 27 · 52 min

    The 'crisis' of members leaving the LDS Church | Episode 441

    Jeff Strong, a former bishop, mission president and BYU faculty member, finds himself in a similar position to an increasing number of parents in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. While he remains a believing, practicing and devout member, he has loved ones (including three of his five children) who have left the faith. Thus, his new book, titled “Torn: Why People We Love Are Leaving the Church and What We Can Learn From Them,” is more than instructive and insightful; it’s personal. The volume includes a sweeping study on Latter-day Saint disaffiliation, revealing that about 40% of active members in the United States have stopped participating over the past quarter century. Why is that? Is it church doctrine, policy or culture? Is it, for instance, the faith’s opposition to same-sex marriage or the occasionally cruel comments about the LGBTQ+ community that may spring up in Sunday school? Does the tension come from the racist remarks Brigham Young made about Black people or from diminished trust in the church for not sharing that part of the faith’s history? On this week’s show, Strong discusses the church’s disaffiliation “crisis,” why so many Latter-day Saints are abandoning the faith, what the stayers get wrong about the leavers, and how members of every stripe can better find belonging no matter where they are in their spiritual journeys.

  • #440
    May 20 · 44 min

    It’s time for members to call out racism, says Black Latter-day Saint leader | Episode 440

    Ronell Hugh says he was recently hiking a trail in Highland, Utah, when a white man in a gray truck leaned out his window and shouted a racist threat. It was a moment both startling and deeply troubling for the president of the Genesis Group, a support organization for Black Latter-day Saints. Hugh hadn’t been threatened like that before since living in the Beehive State. But he had heard lots of stories from other members of his Black congregation, who told him that racism has been on the rise due to the current political climate in the country as well as in Utah, where The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the dominant religious institution. On this week’s show, Hugh, a Latter-day Saint convert and marketing executive who most recently worked for church-owned Deseret Book, discusses the increase in racial tension, what top church leaders have said about it and how Latter-day Saints can counter the sin of racism.

  • #439
    May 13 · 34 min

    LDS women who pursued careers when it was seen as a no-no | Episode 439

    It’s the late 1960s to mid-1970s. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints continues a century-old priesthood and temple ban against its Black members. It takes a high-profile public stance against the proposed Equal Rights Amendment. And a persistent patriarchy urges women to abandon careers and return home to care for their children and husbands — all the while limiting their leadership and other opportunities within the religion. These policies and practices created friction for a number of working women in the church. But rather than leave the fold, a number of talented trailblazers chose instead to turn to Christ and seek personal answers to private prayers to carve their own paths and not only stay true to the faith — and their ambitions — but also emerge even stronger. On this week’s show, Robin Ritch discusses their journeys, which she documents in her newly released book, “Using Friction to Grow.”

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