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More or Less

Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin

Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin have debated the future of Silicon Valley and tech as the closest of friends for the last 15 years. Now six companies, two venture funds and more than a decade at Google, Apple and Facebook later, they are opening up the debate. From The Information, Offline Ventures, and Slow Ventures.

Follow the crew:
http://x.com/davemorin
http://x.com/brit
http://x.com/lessin
http:/x.com/jessicalessin

Follow the pod:
https://moreorlesspod.com/
http://youtube.com/moreorlesspod
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  • 32 episodes
  • weekly
  • Avg 52 min
  • English
Counted on this page — what you have heard stays on this device, so it is not something the list can be paged by.
  • June 17 · 51 min

    Teamshares IPO: $60M EBITDA, 92 Companies, Zero Exits

    Seven years after Slow wrote its first check, Sam sits down with Teamshares CEO Mike Brown as the company prepares to go public. Mike’s core insight is simple: America has millions of durable, cash-flowing small businesses, but no great long-term owner. After buying and operating electrical contractors himself, he realized the opportunity wasn’t another marketplace or PE roll-up, it was building a permanent holding company that acquires great businesses, gives employees ownership, and never sells. Today, Teamshares owns 92 businesses generating roughly $60M in EBITDA. The conversation explores why most roll-ups fail, why capital allocation is the true operating system of the business, and why the traditional private equity model may be running out of steam. Mike closes with an ambitious goal: grow corporate EBITDA from $19M to $100M by 2027 and create a forever home for thousands of small businesses. Chapters: 00:00 Episode Teaser Featuring Mike Brown, Teamshares CEO 01:11 The Teamshares Origin Story 04:48 From Wall Street to Buying Small Businesses 10:47 Why Going Direct to Sellers Didn’t Work (The FSBO Problem) 13:18 Buying at Scale, The Teamshares Model 15:27 92 Acquisitions and $60M EBITDA, Lessons Learned 18:26 Why Generalist Hires Didn’t Work 19:08 Building a Leadership Pipeline 23:46 The Internal YC, Community Across Portfolio Companies 27:42 How Technology Powers 92 Businesses 28:08 “Will This Business Exist in 50 Years?” 32:21 Why Most Roll-Ups Fail 37:30 The Road to $100M EBITDA 39:51 The Long-Term Vision 40:58 Capital Allocation as a Competitive Advantage 42:34 Decentralized Leadership, Centralized Capital 46:16 Why Private Equity Fails Small Businesses 49:25 Going Public, What Comes Next We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/3tV4wdtZBuk Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit Important Disclosures and Disclaimers: Teamshares has entered into a definitive agreement for a business combination with Live Oak Crest Acquisition Corp. (“Live Oak”), a special purpose acquisition company. In connection with the proposed transaction, a registration statement on Form S-4 (the “Registration Statement”) has been filed with, and been declared effective by, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (the “SEC”). This podcast does not constitute an offer to sell or the solicitation of an offer to buy any securities. For important information about the proposed transaction, including where to find the Registration Statement and other legal disclaimers, please refer to the press release available at https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20260527344175/en/Teamshares-Announces-S-4-Effectiveness-in-Anticipation-of-Nasdaq-Listing.Clarifications: Teamshares currently has 93 operating subsidiaries. Additionally, Teamshares has had documented revenue declines and business closures. A full reconciliation of non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures, as well as Teamshares’ audited GAAP financial statements, is available in the Registration Statement. Investors should review the full set of assumptions and risk factors accompanying these metrics in the Registration Statement.

  • June 12 · 44 min

    Apple’s New Siri, SpaceX’s $300B IPO & the AI Company Killing Its Own Brand

    Dave joins the squad from YC just ahead of WWDC, where the group breaks down Apple’s upgraded Siri and the surprising revelation that much of Apple’s AI capability is powered by Google’s Gemini models. It wouldn’t be a technology podcast without the squad expanding into the broader AI landscape, with Dave arguing that outside of OpenAI and Anthropic, most AI companies are becoming infrastructure providers rather than destination products. They continue to unpack the IPO frenzy around SpaceX and OpenAI, including SpaceX’s reportedly massive investor demand and OpenAI’s murky timeline to go public. Jess then shifts the conversation to the turmoil at 60 Minutes, where leadership shakeups, internal revolts, and a declining brand presence raise questions about the future of legacy media. Finally, in Pop Culture Corner, the pod closes with Disney’s $200 million bet on Toy Story 5 and Taylor Swift’s outsized promotional impact. Chapters: 01:53 Apple WWDC: New Siri Breakdown 05:18 Google Gemini Powers Apple AI 07:06 WWDC Ignored Developers Entirely 10:21 Tim Cook’s Leadership Baton Pass 14:30 SpaceX IPO and OpenAI Filing 18:00 Anthropic vs. OpenAI Narrative War 21:48 Dave Morin’s Two-Phone Redemption 26:52 60 Minutes Leadership Implosion 38:44 Toy Story 5 and Taylor Swift We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/Yvox4U_8u1w Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

  • June 5 · 45 min

    Silicon Valley IPO Summer 2026: SpaceX, Anthropic, OpenAI Explained

    Brit subs in for Jess as Sam and Dave unpack the AI IPO boom, including SpaceX, Anthropic, and Cerebras, debate whether AI agents can actually replace employees, and react live to the discovery that Slow’s @slow Instagram account was stolen through a Meta AI support exploit. The conversation spans OpenClaw’s enterprise push, recent AI funding rounds, the AI wrapper debate, and Sam’s latest investing thesis that startup pitches should look more like movie trailers than decks, before ending with a pop culture corner into Taylor Swift, AI-generated podcasts for kids, and the future of TBPN after the OpenAI deal. Chapters: 02:53 AI IPO Season: SpaceX, Anthropic & Cerebras 05:29 Narrative Capitalism: Storing Value in Stories 11:34 What the AI IPO Wave Means for Silicon Valley 15:02 Microsoft Build: OpenClaw Goes Enterprise 17:38 Would You Trade Your Employee for an AI Agent? 25:19 LIVE: Slow Ventures’ Instagram Gets Hacked via Meta AI 30:04 Are AI Harnesses Just Fancy PDFs? 31:49 Recent AI Raises & the SaaS Comeback 33:01 The New Pitch: Movie Trailers Over Decks 41:17 AI-Generated Podcasts, Voice Cloning & Consumer AI 42:54 TBPN Update: Post-OpenAI Deal We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/oYmxx8ElGHk Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

  • May 29 · 50 min

    Did Anthropic Use the Pope as a Marketing Stunt? Ft. Amir Efrati

    This week on More or Less, Amir Efrati of The Information joins Jessica, Brit, and Dave to unpack the growing intersection of AI, government, and national security, from the rumored stalled executive AI order to why frontier model companies may soon face deeper U.S. oversight and pre-release access demands. The group debates whether slowing AI adoption is really a pricing and UX problem, why AI agents are causing token consumption to explode, and whether most consumers even want an always-on personal agent. They also dive into the geopolitical implications of data centers and open-source software, AI’s impact on entertainment and voice cloning, Hollywood’s anxiety over originality, and the strange new world where even papal writings prompt questions about whether AI had a hand in shaping the message. Chapters: 1:57 — AI Predictions, Whispering to Models & Forecasting the Future 4:37 — AI, National Security & the Trump Administration 6:52 — The Pope’s AI Document, Closed Models & Security Risks 11:56 — AI Regulation, Job Fears & Public Sentiment 15:45 — Is AI Adoption Slowing Down? Pricing, ROI & Enterprise Reality 21:00 — Agents, CIOs & Whether Mainstream Users Will Ever Embrace AI 36:00 — AI Entertainment, Voice Cloning & Hollywood’s Future 41:52 — Going Off-Grid, Book Recommendations & Digital Detoxes 47:00 — Mark Rober, CrunchLabs & the $10,000 Bullseye Story We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/OyC7N42o36s Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

  • May 22 · 52 min

    SpaceX IPO Date Talk + OpenAI Confidential Filing Rumors

    This week on More or Less, the crew unpacks IPO speculation around OpenAI and SpaceX, debates whether AI’s economics ultimately favor recurring API spend or owning infrastructure outright, questions if Google’s distribution advantage is enough to win the AI race despite muddled product execution, and wrestles with whether today’s AI valuations are driven by real fundamentals or pure mimetic momentum, alongside broader debates on broken AI user experience, data center concentration risk, agentic search killing SEO, and whether skilled trades like plumbing may ultimately prove more durable than many white-collar jobs in the AI era. Chapters: 01:35 — Brit’s fish disaster story + the fish microbiome economy 04:50 — Dell World, AI PCs, and the tokenomics debate (API spend vs. owning infrastructure) 11:00 — Google I/O recap: agentic search, generative UI, Android glasses, and whether Google is actually back 16:30 — Google’s UX problem: why AI still feels broken for normal users 20:00 — Anthropic vs. Google: focused monolith vs. sprawling empire 22:10 — OpenAI IPO speculation + Anthropic’s mega-round: what do you have to believe at $1T valuations? 29:30 — The “hate invest” thesis: public sentiment, retail risk, and crypto déjà vu 34:20 — Portfolio debate: SpaceX vs. Anthropic vs. OpenAI 35:00 — Sam builds an AI token pricing dashboard live + how companies actually burn $30K/month on tokens 37:00 — What’s next in AI research? Memory, world models, and where infra plays went 42:30 — White House AI model oversight rumors + OpenAI’s Elon legal update 50:10 — AI side projects, kids learning to code, and why plumbers may win the AI era We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

  • May 15 · 45 min

    Google's AI-First Laptop, Meta's Spy Games, AI Monks in Middle America

    The squad is complete again, and Sam arrives with a NeuroPod, cold plunge updates, red light therapy, Oura stats, and enough supplements to start a wellness startup. Then into the week’s biggest tech stories: Google’s new AI device and whether it’s the Chromebook of the AI era or another doomed health-tech experiment, Meta’s keystroke logging controversy, Microsoft’s increasingly awkward OpenAI bet, why OpenAI and Anthropic are now sending engineers directly into enterprises to drive adoption, and what tools like OpenClaw, Py, and Codex actually do. Plus, Anthropic’s eye-watering latest valuation, the clean girl aesthetic discourse, Brian Johnson chaos, and Sam personally buying Jackson Hole ski passes like it’s 1997 Chapters: 00:46 Sam’s NeuroPod, Oura Results & Biohacking Spiral 03:33 Sam vs. Brian Johnson + The Female Biohacker Opportunity 05:09 Oura Ring vs. Whoop + Google’s Wearables Ambition 07:00 Google’s AI-First “Book” Laptop + DeepMind’s Health Push 10:30 Why Local AI Changes Everything (Speed, Cost & Compute) 15:00 Where Is the OpenAI Consumer Device? 16:00 Voice AI, Recording & the Future of Human-Computer Input 20:30 Sam Built His Own Voice-to-AI App 22:31 Meta’s Keystroke Logging: Spy Games or Honeypot? 24:00 Fake AI Jobs + Sam’s “Fin Analytics” Prediction 27:02 OpenAI & Anthropic’s Enterprise Conversion Strategy 29:31 The AI Backlash Is Real (Including UCF’s Commencement Revolt) 31:30 Microsoft’s $100B OpenAI Problem 39:31 Anthropic’s Massive Raise + SF Real Estate Absurdity 41:30 OpenClaw, Py & Codex: What Is a Harness? We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless Youtube: https://youtu.be/-O3zyxR-wS0 Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

  • May 8 · 59 min

    Why the Met Gala Hates Tech, Elon vs OpenAI Drama, and the Rise of Chinese AI Models

    Jess, Britt, and Dave unpack everything from Home Depot runs and closet “re-jiggers” to the internet’s growing backlash against tech wealth, AI, and Silicon Valley culture. The squad debates whether the Met Gala became a symbol of “techlash,” how layoffs and AI anxiety are reshaping public sentiment, and whether AI will actually democratize opportunity or simply concentrate power faster. They also dive into the wild new AI alliances between Anthropic, Elon, and hyperscalers, the latest OpenAI vs Elon trial drama, and why product adoption, not regulation, will decide the future of AI. Plus, Dave shares major OpenClaw updates, real-world AI workflow automations, Meta fork rumors, and the surprisingly relatable use case of turning meeting transcripts into family “receipt printer” briefings. Rounded out with solo movie dates, Taylor Swift theories, Star Wars discourse, and the state of flake culture. Chapters: 00:58 Jess' Home Renovation Project While Sam is Out 03:54 Met Gala: When the Bezoses Became the Story 07:13 Techlash, Wealthlash, and the AI Jobs Backlash 09:36 Trump’s Surprise Pivot Toward AI Regulation 11:51 China, Open-Source Models, and Dave’s $5K Blackwell Desktop 14:13 The Optimistic Case: AI as the Great Wealth Equalizer 17:55 The Pessimistic Case: Tools Democratize, Economics Consolidate 19:43 What Changes Public Sentiment: Better Products, Not Better Arguments 22:42 Layoffs: Pandemic Hangover or AI Substitution? 27:56 Why Almost No One Is Actually Using AI Yet 33:15 Anthropic’s Compute Scramble and the SpaceX/Colossus Deal 36:27 Dario vs. Elon: Two Very Different Operators 39:55 The OpenAI vs. Musk Trial: TMZ or Substance? 45:33 Polymarket, Twitter-Mention Betting, and ChatGPT Comeback 46:42 OpenClaw Update: Foundation, Plugin Architecture, China Forks 50:08 Granola + Claude Code: Replacing Salesforce in 30 Minutes 53:36 Devil Wears Prada, Solo Movie Dates, and the Death of Journalism 55:01 Music & Pop Culture: Ella Langley, Teddy Swims, Toy Story 5 56:36 Why Star Wars Keeps Missing We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/138ne91NkiQ Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

  • May 1 · 1 hr 1 min

    Elon Musk vs OpenAI Trial, Google Cloud Surge, Meta’s Blocked Acquisition, Anthropic Winning

    This week on More or Less, the crew kicks off with a very on-brand derail—Stagecoach turning into a wind-blown 90s reunion-turned-half-capacity vibe, segueing into a chaotic trend report of “booty shorts vs. jorts” before Jessica reframes it as “OpenAI or jorts.” From there, it’s into the real storylines: the Musk v. OpenAI trial in Oakland (Altman and Brockman showing up, Musk posturing, and the judge shutting down theatrics), and whether it’s substance or just WWE for tech. The AI race heats up with reports of ChatGPT missing targets while Anthropic pulls ahead, sparking a broader debate on whether frontier models are sliding into commodity territory—Sam argues narrative over fundamentals while Dave pushes on open-source pressure and who actually foots the data center bill. The conversation expands into geopolitics (regulatory capture, China’s open-source momentum, Meta’s blocked agent play) and earnings (Google Cloud riding Anthropic demand), landing on a sneaky insight: AI’s real cost explosion might be storage, not tokens. They close with a rapid-fire culture sweep—Maria Sharapova’s podcast, NYT rankings, Elon’s Mars comp fantasy, Met Gala backlash, and the final punchline: YouTube growth is way more gameable than anyone wants to admit. Chapters: 00:34 — Stagecoach Chaos: Tornado Winds & Half-Crowd Vibes 01:43 — Summer Trend Report: Booty Shorts vs. Jorts 02:56 — “OpenAI or Jorts?” The Hard Pivot 04:15 — Musk vs OpenAI Trial Begins (And It’s Already Messy) 06:40 — Gag Orders, Jury Drama & Musk’s Opening Stunt 09:03 — Is This Lawsuit Just WWE for Tech? 11:46 — Anthropic Passes OpenAI?! The AI Power Shift 13:57 — AI Is Becoming a Commodity (Sam’s Take) 15:24 — The Real Cost of AI: Tokens vs Labor 18:53 — Open Source Is Eating Everything 21:08 — Outcome-Based Pricing: Fix or Race to Zero? 23:16 — “This Is a Bad Business” (But Everyone Uses It) 26:04 — The Only AI Moat: Regulation or Narrative 29:02 — Why Frontier Models Still Matter 32:04 — China, Open Source & AI Geopolitics 35:06 — Meta’s Blocked AI Deal (Spy Game Energy) 38:07 — Google Wins the AI Race (For Now) 41:23 — The $5B Opportunity Nobody’s Talking About 43:34 — The Real AI Trade: Storage > Tokens 46:58 — Investing Is Dead, Long Live Narrative We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/EkpYTFmS4Ak Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

  • April 24 · 52 min

    What Tim Cook’s “Executive Chairman” Move Really Means | Musk vs OpenAI, xAI and Cursor Rumors

    The full quad is back and we're getting right into the tech drama: AI backlash (from Reese Witherspoon to everyday skepticism), breakthrough science like CRISPR entering its “it actually works” era, and major power shifts across tech — from Apple succession chatter to Jensen Huang’s leadership moments and the brewing battle between OpenAI and Elon Musk. They squad digs into SpaceX IPO dynamics, the rise of “traces” data as the next AI battleground, and what happens when AI gives more people the power to build. Chapters: 0:17 — Welcome Back: Full Quad Edition 1:07 — Creatine, AI Stuffies, and the Opening Chaos 4:37 — Breakthrough Prize & CRISPR Finally Working 5:47 — One-of-One Gene Therapy Becomes Real 7:07 — The AI Backlash Is Real8:47 — UBI vs. Meaning: The Real Debate 10:57 — Jensen’s “I Didn’t Wake Up a Loser Today” Moment 12:47 — Apple Succession: Tim Cook → John Ternus 16:17 — Asset Prices vs. Reality21:17 — Elon vs. OpenAI: The Trial 27:07 — SpaceX IPO: Biggest in History? 29:27 — xAI, Cursor, and the $60B Bet 36:07 — Traces Data: The Next AI Battleground 40:07 — Workplace Surveillance & Employee Data 48:27 — Who Gets to Build? (6B Users vs. 50M Builders) 51:07 — AI: Equalizer or Concentrator? We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/bjePLXg64n0 Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

  • April 17 · 44 min

    Allbirds Pivoted to AI Data Centers | SpaceX $1.5T IPO, Anthropic $800B, $175M Seed Rounds

    SpaceX might be the biggest IPO ever but there’s a math problem no one’s pricing in. Once you factor in capital gains, you need to believe it’ll underperform the market by ~50% just to justify selling. That creates an invisible floor under mega-cap stocks and a market increasingly detached from reality. Meanwhile: Allbirds goes from $4B to $40M and pivots to “NewBird AI.” Seed valuations hit $175M — 3x YoY, above 2021 peak. And AI labs are allegedly planting stories on each other. This week on More or Less: SpaceX’s $19B revenue / $5B losses, the AI bubble, Anthropic $800B rumors, and why fund math is breaking. Chapters: 0:00 — Waymo vs. Uber: the autonomous tipping point 8:29 — Allbirds: $4B → $40M → “NewBird AI” 12:56 — Boom Supersonic and the data center pivot 15:17 — SpaceX IPO: bulls vs. bears 16:14 — The tax problem no one is pricing in 20:16 — Can mega-cap still 50x? 26:47 — SpaceX breakdown: Starlink vs. launch 28:20 — Anthropic $800B rumors 30:08 — OpenAI vs. Anthropic: leaks and competition 31:08 — The model switching problem (no real moat) 33:36 — AI behavior shift: “ask the agent” 38:17 — AI labs running oppo research 40:05 — Seed valuations surpass 2021 peak 42:00 — Fund math is broken We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/FQ5TEs_3Dq8 Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

  • April 10 · 47 min

    Vercel CEO: 70% of Our Traffic Is Now AI Agents "Nobody Was Prepared" | Anthropic, OpenClaw, OpenAI

    Vercel CEO Guillermo Rauch breaks down the explosive rise of AI agents and what it means for the future of software infrastructure. He joins the Morins to unpack why Anthropic cut off OpenClaw users, why the SaaS subscription model is breaking down, how agents are reshaping cloud infrastructure, and why a new wave of “supergeniuses” (from neurosurgeons to 17-year-olds) are building things no one thought possible. Plus: dreams.md, the future of personal agents, and why agents are becoming the new computer. Chapters: 00:42 Intro: Guillermo Rauch, CEO and Founder of Vercel 01:48 Vercel Explodes 5X Growth and AI Traffic Surge 03:51 Why Anthropic Shut Down OpenClaw Users 04:47 Coding Agents Are the Path to AGI 07:57 70 Percent of Vercel Traffic Is Now AI 09:50 SaaS Is Dead Pay Per Token Takes Over 13:16 Anthropic vs OpenClaw Closed vs Open Agents 14:47 The Hidden Risk of AI Data and Training 16:38 Why Everyone Wants Their Own AI 18:08 The Shift to Agent Native Infrastructure 19:45 Vibe Coded Apps Are Going Viral 21:42 The AI Wars Anthropic OpenAI Elon 23:15 Dreams md Self Improving AI Agents 25:44 Memory Theory of Mind and Agent Intelligence 28:05 Your AI Should Travel With You 30:00 Enterprise AI and Domain Expert Agents 31:15 How Vercel Became an AI Native Company 33:06 Hiring in the Age of AI Agents 36:03 The Rise of Supergeniuses 38:10 Inside Slows Creator AI Hackathon 40:06 AI Agents Are the New Customers 41:18 Moving Up the Stack Again 42:05 What Happens in the Next 12 Months 43:48 AI Will Break Cloud and Security We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/f43JCxhKLEg Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

  • April 3 · 47 min

    AI Agents Destroying Internet Security (Anthropic's Leak, ClawCon Tokyo, OpenAI's $852B Valuation)

    Sam Lessin accidentally emailed 40 of Silicon Valley's most important people using an AI bot — and that one mishap reveals everything broken about the AI security model right now. In this episode, Sam and Dave Morin (calling in from ClawCon Tokyo) argue that AI agents are quietly dismantling every security assumption the internet was built on: from open-source package trust chains to content moderation walls to the entire premise of software moats. Meanwhile, Jessica Lessin shares her own Claude Code disaster that proves even careful people are one 'approve' click away from chaos. The team also tears apart OpenAI's $852 billion valuation, debate whether 10 million software developers are about to become irrelevant, and explain why a professional skier in Alaska just built the app she'd been pitching for two years — in a single afternoon. We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/Gv-VUTGVNT8 Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

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