Makers & Mystics

Black Elk: Lakota Visionary, Healer, and Mystic

Black Elk (1863–1950) was an Oglala Lakota medicine man, visionary, and spiritual leader whose life unfolded during one of the most turbulent periods in Native American history. In this Artist Profile, Stephen Roach explores Black Elk's extraordinary life, from his childhood visions and initiation as a medicine man to his travels with Buffalo Bill's Wild West show and his growing interest in Christianity. One of the most significant turning points in Black Elk's life came through an unexpected encounter with a Jesuit priest that led to his conversion to Catholicism. Yet his embrace of Christianity did not mean abandoning his Lakota heritage. Instead, Black Elk came to understand his calling as a healer and spiritual teacher through the lens of the Gospel, integrating the imagery of his childhood vision with the story of Christ. Reflecting on Black Elk's spiritual evolution, Stephen considers what happens when a vision of hope collides with unimaginable suffering, and how a spiritual calling might take shape in ways we never anticipated. His life raises enduring questions about faith, cultural identity, healing, and the possibility of finding a new path when the world we once imagined has fallen apart. CREDITS & ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS Music by: William Johnson The Americus Brass Band Robert Tree Cody The Red Shadow Singers Welcome Voice, traditional Lakota Episcopal recording from the Igmu Winyan YouTube collection, used with permission by The Episcopal Diocese of South Dakota Archival Recording: The Passing of the Red Man, courtesy of the Buffalo Bill Center of the West, Cody, Wyoming Special Thanks to: The Turtle Lodge International Centre for Indigenous Education and Wellness Canyon Records Native American Music The Buffalo Bill Center of the West ...for the commercial use of the songs featured in this episode. The opinions expressed in this episode are solely those of the Makers and Mystics podcast and do not represent the views or opinions of the Lakota or the partnering organizations. Source Materials and further research: Black Elk Speaks by John Neihardt Nicolas Black Elk: Medicine Man, Missionary, Mystic by Michael Steltenkamp Nicolas Black Elk by Jon M. Sweeney The Sixth Grandfather: Black Elk's Teachings Given to John G. Neihardt Black Elk (episodes #266 and #267) on Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

Toward Union with God: A Conversation with Stasi Eldredge

In this episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach sits down with author Stasi Eldredge to explore the contemplative journey toward union with God. Drawing on biblical imagery and themes from her book, The Ladder of Love, Stasi describes a series of rungs that invite us into an increasingly intimate relationship with our Creator, from clay being formed by the hands of God to a beloved child who knows the safety and delight of the Father's embrace. Stephen and Stasi explore how shame, painful experiences, and distorted images of God can keep us distant from the love we long to receive. They discuss the importance of contemplative prayer, learning to recognize God's voice, and discovering our identity as people who are chosen, wanted, and beloved. For artists and seekers alike, this conversation offers an invitation to move beyond information and religious duty toward a life shaped by communion, creativity, and the healing presence of God. In this episode: The ladder of love and the journey toward union with God How shame and self-protection can become barriers to intimacy Rediscovering God as a nurturing, loving presence Why contemplative prayer invites us to experience God rather than simply know about him How creativity can become an act of co-creation and communion with God Stasi Eldredge is an author whose work explores spiritual formation, identity, and the healing love of God. In her book The Ladder of Love, she offers a pathway toward deeper intimacy with God through biblical imagery, reflection, prayer, and contemplative practices. Learn more about Stasi Eldredge and her work: https://wildatheart.org/contributors/stasi-eldredge/ Get The Ladder of Love: https://wildatheart.org/the-ladder-of-love Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

The Monster Revealed: Art, Horror, and The Christian Imagination | Dr. Kutter Callaway

**This episode contains sensitive subject matter** Can horror become a means of redemption? What might the stories that frighten us reveal about ourselves, our faith, and the world we inhabit? Can people of faith engage horror as a legitimate artistic practice? In a culture that often encourages us to avoid discomfort, the darker dimensions of art can challenge us to confront realities we might otherwise prefer to ignore. But when we sanitize our faith, we risk losing our ability to speak honestly about suffering, evil, fear, and the complexities of being human. What if the stories that disturb us most have something important to teach us? In this episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach sits down with Dr. Kutter Callaway, psychologist, theologian, and Chair of Worship Theology and the Arts at Fuller Theological Seminary, to explore horror, the monsters we create, and the spiritual possibilities of confronting our deepest fears. Drawing from his book Be Afraid, Callaway considers how horror can expose the darkness within ourselves and our culture, challenge the ways we understand good and evil, and create space for spiritual maturity. Together, they explore what artists of faith might discover when they stop looking away from the darkness and allow their work to engage the full complexity of the human experience. In this episode, we explore: Why a sanitized faith struggles to speak meaningfully to the darker realities of the human experience. How horror can help us confront our fears and recognize the monsters within ourselves and our culture. What disturbing stories in Scripture and popular culture reveal about suffering, evil, and the human condition. How horror can become a space for creative honesty, spiritual reflection, and the possibility of redemption. What artists of faith might learn by engaging the uncomfortable and unsettling dimensions of human experience. About Dr. Kutter Calloway Dr. Kutter Callaway is a psychologist, theologian, cultural critic, and Chair of Worship Theology and the Arts at Fuller Theological Seminary. His work explores the intersections of theology, psychology, popular culture, and the arts. In his book Be Afraid, Callaway examines the spiritual and psychological dimensions of horror and considers how confronting our fears might contribute to spiritual maturity. Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

This Is a Door: Storytelling, Meaning-Making, and The Search for Identity | Daniel Nayeri

Why do we need stories? And what if the purpose of art is not simply self-expression, but a way of helping us understand what it means to be human? In this episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach sits down with acclaimed author Daniel Nayeri to explore the relationship between storytelling, meaning-making, and identity. From the stories we tell to make sense of our lives to the narratives that connect us to one another, Daniel reflects on why storytelling is essential to the human experience and why isolation leaves us without someone to share our stories with. Daniel discusses his imaginative new novel, This Is a Door, a visually inventive hero’s journey about a boy searching for his identity and his purpose. Along the way, we explore the relationship between imagination and faith, the creative practices that help artists cultivate their work, and the often-overlooked purpose of beauty. For Daniel, art is more than personal expression or professional achievement. It is a form of service: an offering of beauty, meaning, and truth that can sustain another person when they need it most. In this episode, we explore: Why storytelling is essential to human connection and our search for meaning. How imagination and faith intersect, and why so much of the spiritual life is left to the imagination. The search for identity, purpose, and belonging at the heart of Daniel’s novel This Is a Door. How creative discipline, deep focus, and everyday practices help artists cultivate their imagination. About Daniel Nayeri Daniel Nayeri is an acclaimed author whose work spans fiction, memoir, and books for young readers. His writing explores storytelling, identity, faith, and the ways we make meaning of our lives. His novel This Is a Door is an imaginative exploration of the hero’s journey and the search for identity and purpose. Makers & Mystics is a podcast for art-driven seekers of truth and lovers of life, exploring the intersection of art, faith, and the mysteries of human existence. Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

Our Daily Breath: How Contemplation Feeds The Creative Life | Kayla Craig

Contemplation is the inhale, and creativity is the exhale. Author and spiritual director Kayla Craig shares how we can make space for both. Her devotional, Our Daily Breath, guides readers through contemplative prayer practices designed to renew creative energy in a loud, distracted world. Stephen Roach and Kayla explore why cynicism comes so easily, and how stillness opens the door to compassion, nuance, and hope. Kayla shares the research behind mindful breathing and why it matters for artists, musicians, and makers. KEY TOPICS COVERED Creativity begins with attention, and contemplative prayer trains you to notice what is already sacred in ordinary life. Why being nourished from the inside out gives you something to offer when the world's pain shows up. Creating from abundance, not scarcity, gives your work more weight, so caring for your soul becomes part of your craft. ABOUT KAYLA CRAIG Kayla Craig is an author and spiritual director who writes prayers and devotions for people living full, noisy lives. She studied contemplative spiritual formation and spiritual direction at Columbia, where her instructor trained under Thomas Keating. Her new book, Our Daily Breath, gathers 365 prayers and practices and draws on more than 400 citations from contemplatives, poets, and artists. She is a mother of four who knows quiet is aspirational, which shapes how practical and accessible her approach to prayer is. RESOURCES & LINKS Our Daily Breath Devotional: 365 Prayers and Practices That Whisper Peace in a Shouting World by Kayla Craig — the devotional discussed in this episode Thomas Merton — monk and poet quoted in Kayla's devotion on stillness Thomas Keating — contemplative teacher who shaped Kayla's spiritual formation Breath by James Nestor — journalist's exploration of breathing, including the rosary study Centering prayer, welcoming prayer, and breath prayer — contemplative practices Kayla recommends Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

Memory Is a Musical Place with Composer Michael Anderson

What if memories were real entities that inhabit places, and what if music could give those places a voice? In this episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach sits down with composer Michael Anderson to explore the strange and beautiful relationship between memory, time, place, music, and faith. Michael's latest work, Hallov, is a 24-piece musical journey through birth, pain, joy, death, and what might come after. Described by Michael as “a movie score without the movie,” the album follows a protagonist through a series of imagined spaces while a mysterious “Spirit of Time” moves alongside him. For Michael, those spaces are more than settings. They are repositories of memory. An old church, a car ride, a hallway, a family dinner- places can hold the people we loved, the moments we experienced, and even the versions of ourselves we have left behind. Together, Stephen and Michael explore how music can give those memories a voice and how recurring melodies can function almost like memories themselves, returning throughout the album in different forms as the story unfolds. The conversation moves from Michael's childhood fascination with spaces to the autobiographical memories woven throughout Hallov, including a Wednesday night dinner with his grandparents, leaving Florida for a new chapter of life, and the haunting experience of imagining one's own death. Along the way, they explore the spiritual questions underneath the music: What happens to our memories when we enter eternity? Does the hope of new creation mean that our painful experiences are erased, or might they somehow be gathered into wholeness? And what might it mean to believe that even our tears and suffering have a place in the story God is making new? At the heart of the conversation is a deeper question: What if memory is not simply something we carry from the past, but a place where we encounter the mystery of who we have been, who we are becoming, and who we might be in eternity? For artists, Michael offers another important invitation: to resist the temptation to stop creating because someone else has created something greater. The joy of art isn't found in being the best. Sometimes the most important thing we can do is simply finish the work we've begun—and celebrate that it exists. Michael Anderson is a composer who blends classical music with jazz, pop, electronics, and soundscapes. He is drawn to memorable melodies and heartfelt narratives, using music as a way to explore story, memory, and human experience. His latest project, Hallov, brings together his love of cinematic music and storytelling in an immersive 24-piece exploration of time, memory, faith, death, and hope. Connect with Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/musicbymichaelanderson/ Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

Art As a Spiritual Gateway: Classical Music and Rediscovering Creative Joy

What happens when the art form you once loved becomes a way of proving your worth? For oboist, educator, and author Merideth Estevez, classical music began as a source of joy and wonder. As a child, it was even a language through which she experienced God. But somewhere along the way, the pursuit of excellence became entangled with perfectionism, achievement, and the need to prove herself. In her book Art Is How God Loves Us, Merideth invites us to reconsider what art actually is. Rather than seeing art as something reserved for the technically gifted, she describes it as “atoms responding to transcendence”—our participation in the creative abundance already at work in the world. In this conversation, we talk about the difference between perfectionism and excellence, what an oboe reed can teach us about faith, why imperfection can be a sign of life, and how technical training can become a vocabulary rather than a prison. We explore the relationship between tradition and innovation, the ways art can become a spiritual gateway, and what it might mean to encounter God through a symphony, a painting, a river, or even the ordinary creative choices of everyday life. Ultimately, Merideth offers an invitation to see ourselves differently: not as people who have to earn our worth through what we create, but as people made in the image of an Artist—and therefore already invited to create. Merideth Estevez is an oboist, educator, author, and coach whose work explores the intersection of creativity, faith, and wellbeing. She is the author of Art Is How God Loves Us and The Artist's Joy. In this episode: Redefining art as “atoms responding to transcendence” The difference between perfectionism and excellence Tradition, innovation, and learning the rules so we can break them Art as a spiritual gateway Finding God in unexpected works of art Why you don't have to consider yourself an artist to create Learn more about Merideth Estevez and her work at artistsforjoy.org. Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

The Art of Slow: Making Things That Last with Jake Weidmann

We live in a world of fast content, instant communication, next-day shipping, and things designed to be quickly replaced. But what happens when an artist chooses to work against the grain of social norms? Jake Weidmann is one of only nine Master Penmen in the world, but his work extends far beyond calligraphy. A multidisciplinary artist working in drawing, oil painting, sculpture, wood carving, and bronze, Jake has devoted himself to the long process of mastering his craft. In this conversation, Jake shares what he calls “The Art of Slow” and why the slow, contemplative devotion to excellence might be a way of resisting disposability and recovering a long, even eternal view of our calling as makers. Jake shares about his new book, The Heart of The Maker, and the creative process from practice and inspiration to failure, perseverance, repentance, and finishing well. This is a conversation about craft, patience, tradition, creativity, and the things we choose to make that might outlast us. Jake Weidmann is a multidisciplinary artist and one of the world's nine living Master Penmen. His work explores calligraphy, drawing, painting, sculpture, wood carving, and the relationship between creativity, faith, and tradition. Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

Seeing Through The Tropes: How Art History Shaped Women's Identity | Elissa Yukiko Weichbrodt

How do the images we see shape the way we understand ourselves and one another? In this episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach sits down with art historian and author Elissa Yukiko Weichbrodt to explore her new book, Look Like a Lady: Five Visual Tropes of Womanhood and How to See Ourselves Differently. Drawing from centuries of art history, Elissa identifies five recurring ways women have been depicted and understood: Venus, Vessel, Maiden, Mother, and Monster. These aren't simply artistic categories. They are stories that can quietly shape our expectations about beauty, femininity, motherhood, sexuality, agency, and even holiness. Together, Stephen and Elissa explore how these visual tropes have influenced both popular culture and Christian imagination and consider the alternative stories that can help us see women as whole, particular, embodied people rather than objects, symbols, or stereotypes. The conversation moves from ancient Greek sculpture and Renaissance paintings to Victorian photography, contemporary beauty culture, purity culture, and the ways women are represented within the church. Along the way, Elissa introduces five counter-stories: Witnessing instead of objectifying Being instead of becoming an empty vessel for someone else's meaning Moving instead of remaining passive or contained Cultivating instead of being reduced to motherhood Partnering instead of viewing men and women as threats or opposites At the heart of the conversation is a deeper question: What might it look like to recover a vision of womanhood rooted not in cultural expectations, but in the particularity, dignity, agency, and belovedness of each person created in the image of God? For artists, this conversation offers an invitation to consider how the images we create participate in forming the imagination of the people who encounter them. And for all of us, it raises an important possibility: perhaps freedom doesn't come from simply rejecting old stories, but from learning to recognize them—and telling truer ones. Elissa Weichbrodt is an art historian, educator, and author. Her new book, Look Like a Lady: Five Visual Tropes of Womanhood and How to See Ourselves Differently, examines the ways visual culture has shaped our understanding of womanhood and offers a more expansive, hopeful vision. Connect with Elissa on Instagram: http://instagram.com/elissabrodt Get the book: https://bakerbookhouse.com/products/9781587436925_look-like-a-lady Listen to our previous conversation with Elissa: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/s11-e07-redeeming-vision-with-dr-elissa-yukiko-weichbrodt/id1090123738?i=1000605110237 Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

Strange Glory: A Case for Unconventional Art

What does it mean to glorify God through art? For many artists, the desire to glorify God can become an expectation that their work should communicate an explicitly religious message. But what happens when that expectation begins to constrict the artist? What if our attempts to make art that clearly communicates faith actually prevent the art from becoming genuinely transformative? In this solo meditation, Stephen Roach explores the relationship between Christian faith, artistic freedom, and the glory of God. Drawing on the work of Hans Rookmaaker and Flannery O'Connor, as well as the strange prophetic performances of Ezekiel, Isaiah, and Jeremiah, Stephen asks whether art needs to be explicitly religious in order to be spiritually meaningful. Stephen revisits the story of Paolo Veronese and his controversial painting of The Last Supper, which brought him before the Catholic Inquisition in 1573. The story raises an important question for artists and faith communities alike: what happens when our desire to protect familiar expressions of faith leaves no room for artistic imagination? Perhaps glorifying God through art doesn't always mean making art that is easily recognizable as Christian. Perhaps sometimes it means following our creative curiosity into places that are unfamiliar, challenging, ambiguous, or even strange. In a world where familiar religious imagery can become wallpaper, what might happen if we made room for art that surprises us again? In this episode: Rethinking what it means to "glorify God" through art Why treating art as a "tool" for evangelism can strip it of its power The shocking performance art of Ezekiel, Isaiah, and Jeremiah Paolo Veronese's controversial Last Supper How religious conformity can restrict artistic creativity Why faith communities need to cultivate curiosity rather than judgment The danger of familiar truths becoming spiritually dull ABOUT THE HOST Stephen Roach is the host of Makers and Mystics, a podcast exploring the intersection of creativity, faith, and the human experience. He is an artist, curator, poet, and musician. He is currently writing How to See Invisible Things, a book exploring the future of art and faith. Stephen has spent over a decade advocating for creativity as a spiritual discipline and calling. RESOURCES AND LINKS Art Needs No Justification by Hans Rookmaaker — the book referenced for its argument that art has intrinsic value apart from evangelistic use Five Creativity Killers and How to Avoid Them by Stephen Roach — Stephen's booklet where he first wrote about Paolo Veronese's trial Disclaimer: This episode is a case for unconventional art, but I want to be clear that it is not a disparagement of sacred art: work created specifically for devotional or liturgical environments and practices. My critique of “easy art” is not meant to diminish the beauty or value of sacred art. —Stephen Roach Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

The World Needs Your Art: The Spiritual Roots of Why Artists Suffer | Stephen Roach

Every great artist from Caravaggio to Frida Kahlo has fought the same invisible war, and Stephen Roach makes the case that it is not a coincidence. In this solo reflection, Stephen traces a decade-long question that has haunted him: why does creative expression seem to attract so much internal and external opposition? Drawing on scripture, church history, and the lives of artists who battled addiction, trauma, and mental illness, he builds a case for why creativity and faith are so deeply intertwined, and why that connection makes artists a centerpiece in a spiritual battle. He highlights an uncanny parallel between the King of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 and the artisans in Exodus, then lands in the present moment, asking what it means to keep making human art in an age of artificial intelligence. Listeners will walk away with a framework for understanding creative resistance and a renewed sense of why their work matters. KEY TOPICS COVERED • Why creativity is rooted in the image of God • The historical pattern of struggle among great artists, from addiction to mental illness • The church's complicated relationship with the arts • What the rise of AI means for the future of human creativity • Why art may be the last human frontier in an automated world ABOUT THE HOST Stephen Roach is the host of Makers and Mystics, a podcast exploring the intersection of creativity, faith, and the human experience. He is an artist, curator, poet, and musician. He is currently writing How to See Invisible Things, a book exploring the inner life of art and faith. Stephen has spent over a decade advocating for creativity as a spiritual discipline. RESOURCES AND LINKS The War of Art by Steven Pressfield - referenced for its concept of Resistance and creative struggle Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

• Chapters

Evelyn Underhill: Mother of Modern Mystics

Evelyn Underhill: The Mother of Modern Mystics Artist Profile Series 40 Who was Evelyn Underhill, and why does her work continue to shape the modern contemplative movement more than a century later? In this Artist Profile episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach explores the life of Evelyn Underhill, writer, spiritual director, retreat leader, and one of the most influential voices on Christian mysticism in the twentieth century. Although she is often remembered for her landmark book Mysticism, Underhill's own spiritual journey was anything but straightforward. From youthful encounters with transcendent beauty to explorations of the occult, philosophy, and Roman Catholicism, her search eventually led her into the Anglican tradition, where she discovered that mystical experience finds its deepest fulfillment not in extraordinary visions but in the ordinary rhythms of worship, sacrament, and life with Christ. In an age captivated by spirituality yet often disconnected from historic faith, Evelyn Underhill's life reminds us that the deepest longing of the human heart is not simply for transcendent experiences, but for communion with the living God. In This Episode The surprising spiritual journey that shaped Evelyn Underhill's life How Mysticism became one of the defining books on Christian contemplation Why Underhill believed mystical experience should be part of ordinary Christian life Her friendship with Baron Friedrich von Hügel and its profound influence The relationship between artists, beauty, and the contemplative life Why her final book, Worship, marked the culmination of her life's work What her story offers Christians, artists, and seekers today Notable Quotes "The mystic is called to be a creative artist of the highest kind." "Beauty is simply Reality seen with the eyes of love." "Long before we begin searching for God, God has already begun searching for us." Books Mentioned Mysticism: A Study in the Nature and Development of Man's Spiritual Consciousness — Evelyn Underhill Practical Mysticism — Evelyn Underhill Worship — Evelyn Underhill Confessions — Augustine of Hippo Dark Night of the Soul — St. John of the Cross People Mentioned Baron Friedrich von Hügel T. S. Eliot Julian of Norwich St. John of the Cross William Blake Augustine of Hippo Connect with Makers & Mystics If this episode encouraged you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who longs to recover beauty, wonder, and the contemplative life. To support the ongoing work of Makers & Mystics and gain access to bonus content, join our Patreon community. Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/makersandmystics Website: https://www.makersandmystics.com Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

Making Room at the Table: Art, Justice, and The Stories That Shape Us | Steve Prince

What if art isn't simply something we admire, but something that asks something of us? In this episode, Stephen Roach sits down with acclaimed printmaker, educator, and storyteller Steve Prince for a conversation about the vocation of the artist. Drawing from history, faith, family, and lived experience, Steve shares how his work seeks to preserve memory, confront injustice, and create spaces where genuine transformation can begin. From the legacy of the Civil Rights Movement to the power of oral storytelling, from New Orleans kitchen tables to ambitious community art projects, Steve reveals why he believes artists are called to help us "remember to remember" and to imagine a more hopeful future together. Together they explore: Why artists are called to be truth-tellers How history shapes both our imagination and our responsibility The role of beauty in confronting difficult realities Why storytelling is essential to healing divided communities Steve's Kitchen Table project and its vision for reconciliation Creating art that challenges, invites, and transforms Faith, social justice, and the spiritual calling of creative work Helping the next generation of artists embrace both courage and adaptability Whether you're an artist, educator, historian, or simply someone longing for deeper conversations in a fractured world, this episode offers a vision of art as an act of hospitality, remembrance, and hope. Quote from the Episode "The artist helps us remember to remember.""Art isn't made to divide us, it creates a pathway toward who we could become.""Every table has something to teach us." - Steve Prince Resources Mentioned Steve Prince's Kitchen Table community art project Trinity City graphic novel initiative Howard Thurman Martin Luther Medgar Evers Emmett Till Rosa Parks Martin Luther King Jr. If this episode encouraged you, please consider sharing it with a friend, leaving a review, or supporting the work of Makers & Mystics through Patreon. Produced by Stephen Roach. Music by Some Were at Sea. Keep Creating. The World Needs Your Art. Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

Missionaries of Beauty: An Antidote to a Cultural Crisis with Sacred Artist Kate Capato

Can beauty change a person? A community? A culture? Sacred artist Kate Capato believes it can. In this bonus episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach sits down with Kate to explore why authentic beauty has the power to heal, awaken wonder, and draw people into the presence of God. Together they discuss the modern crisis of beauty, the vocation of the artist, and how sacred art becomes an invitation into deeper communion with Christ. Kate shares why she and her family travel the country as "missionaries of beauty," bringing paintings and music into communities where beauty becomes a catalyst for transformation. In this episode, you'll discover: • Why beauty is essential • The difference between beauty and prettiness • Why modern culture is experiencing a crisis of beauty • The spiritual practice of creating sacred art • Practical ways anyone can cultivate beauty in everyday life About Kate Capato Kate Capato is a sacred artist and founder of Visual Grace. Through commissioned paintings, exhibitions, and speaking events, she helps people encounter the beauty of God through visual art. Together with her husband, she travels throughout the United States sharing sacred art and music as "missionaries of beauty." Learn more: https://visualgrace.org Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

One Last Monster: Gene Kim on Animation, Storytelling, and the Art of Human Transformation

Animation has a unique ability to carry profound truths beneath colorful worlds, unforgettable characters, and compelling adventure. Beneath the spectacle, the best stories invite us into questions of identity, grief, hope, and transformation. In this episode, Stephen Roach sits down with animator and storyboard artist Gene Kim, whose career has included work with Pixar, Blue Sky Studios, and major film and television productions. Together they explore why stories matter, how animation can communicate deep spiritual realities, and why genuine character transformation lies at the heart of every meaningful narrative. Gene also shares the deeply personal story behind his animated short film One Last Monster, revealing how the loss of his mother shaped its themes of trust, suffering, and hope. Drawing from Korean history, classic anime, The Lord of the Rings, and his own Christian faith, Gene reflects on the surprising ways fantasy can help us tell the truth about the human experience. In this conversation, you'll discover: Why animation is uniquely suited for exploring profound spiritual themes The relationship between storytelling and personal transformation How compelling characters become vehicles for hope and redemption How Gene processed grief through the creative act of filmmaking Why the best stories remind us that we are never alone in our suffering Whether you're an artist, filmmaker, writer, or simply someone who loves a great story, this conversation offers a thoughtful look at the power of imagination to help us make sense of ourselves and the world we inhabit. Watch Gene's animated short One Last Monster and follow his ongoing work: YouTube: https://youtube.com/@onelastmonster Instagram: https://instagram.com/onelastmonster Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

Threads of Beauty: On Fashion, Fabric and Theology

In this bonus episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach revisits The Pace of Beauty series with artist and designer Jennifer Sturrock. Drawing from her background in couture, contemporary art, and theological study, Jennifer shares how fabric and materiality have become a framework for exploring deeper questions of identity, mystery, and communion with God. What begins as a conversation about textiles and clothing unfolds into a rich exploration of the Transfiguration, the symbolism of garments throughout Scripture, and the ways beauty reveals truths that often remain hidden beneath the surface. Stephen and Jen discuss the theological significance of clothing and how fashion can function as both concealment and revelation. Jennifer reflects on her own artistic practice, including large-scale textile installations that invite viewers into contemplation, mystery, and embodied ways of knowing. The conversation also explores Jennifer's idea of "rewilding the creative soul,” embracing vulnerability, and discovering the beauty that emerges when people become more fully themselves. Highlights: • Jennifer's journey from fashion and textile design into theology and contemporary art • How the Transfiguration shaped her artistic and theological imagination • Fashion as language • Art as a practice of mystery, contemplation, and unknowing About Jennifer Sturrock Jennifer Sturrock is a Scottish multidisciplinary artist, designer, curator, and researcher whose work integrates couture, installation art, and poetry. Drawing on studies at Chelsea College of Arts and London College of Fashion, she later earned a Master's degree in Theology & the Arts from King's College London, where she specialized in the idea of beauty in theology. Connect with Jen Website: https://www.jennifersturrock.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jensturrock Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

The Problem with Beauty: From The Grotesque to The Sublime

Beauty is one of the most celebrated words in art and faith conversations, but it may also be one of the most misunderstood. Is beauty simply what pleases the eye, or is it something deeper? Can beauty exist alongside suffering, loss, and the grotesque? And what happens when we settle for beauty that comforts us while avoiding the realities that transform us? What if beauty requires darkness, mystery, and even lament in order to reveal its deepest meaning? In this roundtable discussion, Stephen Roach and guests Corey Frey, Liv Ross, and Scott Aasman wrestle with beauty not as sentimentality or surface appeal, but as a force capable of holding together truth, goodness, suffering, and hope. KEY TOPICS Why beauty can feel inauthentic when it is removed from struggle The original meaning of "glamour" as a veil designed to trap and deceive, and why that etymology still matters for artists today How the three transcendentals — goodness, truth, and beauty — function like a trinity: remove one and the others collapse into vanity, brutality, or cover-up What Edmund Burke and Kant meant by the sublime, and why terror and beauty belong together rather than apart The real context behind Dostoevsky's phrase "beauty will save the world," drawn from The Idiot, and why stripping it from that argument changes everything Thomas Kinkade's stated goal of painting a world where the Fall never happened, and what his private life and Andy Warhol quote reveal about the cost of bypassing Holy Saturday Why form without substance is essentially pornographic, and how true beauty requires the material and the spiritual coming together How artistic isolation stunts creative roots the way a tree grown in perfect conditions falls in the first storm and why community, friction, and disagreement strengthen both the artist and the work About the Guests: Corey Frey is a multidisciplinary artist, writer, and co-founder of The Well Collaborative, a community dedicated to creativity, curiosity, and culture. He lives in Maryland with his wife and continues to explore the intersections of art, faith, and imagination. Liv Ross is an urban monk, poet, essayist, and Managing Editor of Traces Journal. Writing from the Ozarks, her work explores place, wonder, memory, and spiritual formation. Her first book, The Blackbird Ballad, was published by Solum Literary Press in 2026. Scott Aasman is an award-winning illustrator, educator, and co-founder of Salt Cellar Arts, an arts-focused community for the spiritually attentive and creatively engaged. He lives in Hamilton, Ontario, with his wife and two children. Resources Mentioned Beauty Will Save the World by Brian Zahnd The Idiot by Fyodor Dostoevsky The Thought of the Heart and the Soul of the World by James Hillman Works by Flannery O'Connor Works by Cormac McCarthy Paintings of Thomas Kinkade Landscapes of J. M. W. Turner Connect with Our Guests Corey Frey coreysfrey.com Liv Ross The Abbey of Curiosity Substack The Blackbird Ballad Scott Aasman Instagram – San Illustration Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

The Beauty of Vulnerability | Zan Fiskum

What does it cost an artist to tell the truth? Singer-songwriter Zan Fiskum has built her entire creative life around finding out. In this episode, host Stephen Roach sits down with Zan to explore how her most personal songs, about a toxic creative relationship, a fractured friendship, and a complicated bond with her mother, became anthems for strangers carrying the same quiet weight. This is a conversation about the craft behind vulnerability: how to write specifically enough to be honest, and broadly enough to let the listener find themselves inside your story. If you've ever wondered whether your most painful experiences are worth putting into a song, this episode answers that question with a resounding yes. Key Takeaways The particular is the universal. Writing from your most specific, personal experience doesn't isolate your audience; it invites them in. The goal is to leave enough space in the lyric for listeners to find their own story. Vulnerability on stage is a form of service. Sharing something raw and real can give your audience permission to feel things they didn't think they were allowed to feel, and sometimes, to take action they've been avoiding for years. Faith doesn't require religious language. Drawing on C.S. Lewis, Zan articulates a conviction shared by many artists of faith: we don't need more Christian people making Christian art. We need Christians making art, beautiful, honest, human art. Your constraints can become your creative fuel. Whether it's a commission, a theme, or a question crowdsourced from strangers on the internet, working within limits can push you toward material you'd never find on your own. Resources Mentioned Zan Fiskum's album — Forbidden Art (available on all major streaming platforms) Makers and Mystics — "The Gift of the Elders" episode — A previous episode featuring Petrobas from New Zealand on how indigenous cultures honor their elders Zan's social media: Instagram: @zanfiskum Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

Beauty As Survival: Breath, Embodiment, and The First Instrument

Beauty As Survival: Breath, Embodiment, and The First Instrument A conversation with Whitney Lynn In this episode, I sit down with embodiment coach, creative director, and longtime Breath and The Clay collaborator Whitney Lynn to explore the intersections of breath, beauty, embodiment, and the creative life. Whitney’s work centers on “returning the body to the body,” helping people come home to themselves in a culture that so often pulls us toward dissociation. Together, we explore how breath is far more than a biological necessity; it is a sacred creative force, a pathway into nervous system regulation, healing, and flow. Through breathwork, we discuss how the body becomes not an obstacle to spiritual life, but our first instrument of artistry, intuition, and connection. This conversation continues on themes from our series on The Pace of Beauty, expanding the idea that beauty is not a luxury or superficial pursuit, but a necessary force for survival. Whitney offers insight into how beauty regulates us, heals trauma, and awakens us to deeper intimacy with ourselves, others, and God. Together, we also confront the inherited fear of the body present in many faith spaces, tracing how distorted ideas around embodiment have often disconnected spirituality from physical presence. Whitney invites us into a richer vision—one where the body is not something to escape, but a sacred vessel through which creativity, healing, and divine encounter unfold. Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1

Make Your Home In This Luminous Dark: Contemporary Art and The Path of the Mystics with James K. A. Smith

Make Your Home In This Luminous Dark A conversation with James K. A. Smith In this episode, I sit down with philosopher and author James K. A. Smith (Jamie) to explore the mystical tradition as a living pathway into deeper faith, creativity, and presence. Jamie shares how his journey into mysticism began not through abstract theology, but through personal crisis, an experience of depression that exposed the limits of intellect and certainty. From there, voices like St. John of the Cross and Thomas Merton opened up a new way of understanding faith, not as mastery, but as surrender; not as knowing, but as unknowing. Together, we explore what it means to “make your home in the luminous dark,” to embrace mystery as a space of transformation rather than failure. We also dive deeply into the surprising role of art, especially contemporary and “difficult” art, as a powerful and often overlooked gateway into contemplation. Rather than delivering clear messages, great art invites us into encounter, disorientation, and wonder, forming in us the very capacities needed for a mystical life. This conversation is an invitation to let go of control, to trust the deeper currents of love beneath reality, and to discover how both mysticism and art can open us to the presence of God in ways that certainty never could. JOIN US FOR BOOK CLUB! Every Tuesday at 8 pm EST in June 2026, we will be reading James's book online in our Patreon community! We'd love to have you with us. Visit patreon.com/makersandmystics to RSVP. Send us Fan Mail Support the show CONNECT WITH US Website: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Join our creative collective: patreon.com/makersandmystics Sign Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1