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Religion & Spirituality

Inner Life, Talks and Thoughts

Mark Vernon

Reflections from Mark Vernon on soulful matters including spirituality and psychotherapy, science and religion, consciousness and the divine. For more on see www.markvernon.com

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  • 22 episodes
  • Avg 47 min
  • English

Episodes 22

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  • Saturday · 32 min

    Science and Spiritual Practices: what makes the difference?

    Why is beauty so important to scientists, even those without religious convictions? And is that in some way connected to the failure of New Atheism, which began two decades ago this year? In this Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogue, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon consider how trials of spiritual practices suggest that the spiritual element makes a measurable difference, which in turn suggests ways to answers questions about beauty and the persistence of a sense that the universe is enchanted. Rupert’s two books on science and spiritual practices inform the conversation, as does research by Guy Hayward, Linda Woodhead, Simon Conway Morris, Micheal Levin and a team led by Fraser Watts. Why is providence such a powerful intuition? And might related matters have anything to do with the extraordinary power of Large Language Models? For more on the research considered: https://www.sheldrake.org/books-by-rupert-sheldrake/science-and-spiritual-practices https://www.markvernon.com/the-logos-in-the-data-centre-new-essay-at-my-substack-a-golden-string https://www.issr.org.uk/projects/the-science-of-religious-and-spiritual-exercises-sorse/ https://guyhayward.com/singing-is-neither-good-nor-bad-but-thinking-makes-it-so

  • September 27 · 48 min

    Unveiling Transcendence. William Blake and the Book of Daniel

    What if apocalyptic biblical literature is not best interpreted through historical events, though they certainly have a bearing, nor through the symbolic, as if the imagery should be decoded? Instead, these texts are educations in imagination, reorientating readers to the vision of God. Such an understanding of the apocalyptic, which means “unveiling”, was certainly the view of William Blake and is a way to read the Book of Daniel, according to Professor Stephen Cook. His new commentary on Daniel brings Blake and others into conversation with the Old Testament book, which doubly makes sense as Blake was certainly in conversation with Daniel. This approach treats Daniel as a profound theological and visionary work of hope, rather than a rigid end-times code or literal prediction of future historical events. Dr. Stephen L. Cook is the Catherine N. McBurney Professor of Old Testament Language and Literature at Virginia Theological Seminary. His commentary is part of the Baker Commentary on the Old Testament Prophetic Books series. Dr Mark Vernon is a writer and psychotherapist, who has written on Christianity and Owen Barfield, Dante as a spiritual journey, and most recently, on Blake as a guide for our times. For more on Stephen - https://vts.edu/faculty/stephen-l-cook/ For more on Mark and his book "Awake! William Blake and the Power of the Imagination" - https://www.markvernon.com/

  • August 25 · 44 min

    The Souls of Plants. A conversation with Rupert Sheldrake

    An ancient intuition is that plants have souls and even participate in the life of God by virtue of being alive. But what sense can be made of that today? In this episode of the Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon consider the Neoplatonic understanding that all living creatures, and perhaps all self-organising things, have a soul as part of their existence. But what does this imply about plant perception, plant intelligence, and plant awareness? Why do plants so inspire artists, mystics, and scientists - as well as worldwide activities such as the cut flower industry? Rupert has spend decades both studying plants and profoundly enjoying their presence in his life. Mark feels the inspiration that plants offer the contemplative life. Considering the souls of plants is quite as generative of insights and questions as plants are themselves generative of beautiful forms of life. For more on Rupert Sheldrake - www.rupertsheldrake.com For more on Mark Vernon - www.markvernon.com

  • July 26 · 36 min

    Homer's Odyssey, Nolan's telling. Crucial losses in the movie version of nostos, homecoming

    The Odyssey movie is brilliant. The combination of spectacle and seriousness that characterises Christopher Nolan’s film-making makes this one a must-see. I can wholeheartedly recommend it. However, this telling is Nolan's telling. The opening title reads: “A time of apparent magic”, which is a clear signal. Throughout a psychological option is offered for the presence of gods, sorcery and monsters and, quite explicitly, a moral imperative provides coherence to the meandering story. There are also, inevitably, elements from Homer’s original that are absent in the cinema epic and that gives me an entrée. I discussion the significance of love, which matters because it is such a key part of the question of how, like them, we humans might live close to the gods. I think about the significance of the blinding of Polyphemus, which is a dark awakening: human craftiness need no longer be tied to spiritual craft. I recall the striking appearance of the Cave of the Nymphs on Ithaca, and the Neoplatonic understanding of its significance. And then there’s the violence, which so much exceeds a moral response, as if hospitality, politeness and decency were enough. Christianity has a different response, and the brilliance of Homer’s tale is implicit in that emergence. For more on A Secret History of Christianity - https://www.markvernon.com/books/a-secret-history-of-christianity

  • July 15 · 43 min

    nd the Sacred Today. A dialogue between Rupert Sheldrake & Mark Vernon

    Does art need to have a sacred dimension to be art at all? What are the sources of inspiration? In this dialogue, which is the 102nd in the series, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon, explore how meaning and beauty, truth and connection might be manifested in the arts. What is the role of reverence and empathy, place and intelligence? Conversely, what is lost when art loses a reference beyond the human and mechanical world? If art energizes the human spirit, encourages awareness, and revitalises symbols, how might it speak to us today of what it is be human and to live in a more than human world? The conversation took place in The Garrison Chapel, Chelsea, and was organised by The King’s Foundation. For more on Mark see https://www.markvernon.com For more on Rupert see https://rupertsheldrake.com

  • May 24 · 1 hr 16 min

    The Awakening to Eternal Life! How to read William Blake's "Jerusalem the Emanation of the Giant Albion"

    Susanne Sklar and Mark Vernon explore William Blake's late, great poem, "Jerusalem the Emanation of the Giant Albion" "Of the Sleep of Ulro! and of the passage through Eternal Death! and of the awakening to Eternal Life," Blake tells us the epic is about. Albion features, as does the heroine Jersualem, as well as Jesus. So how did Blake weave together these figures? How can the poem be read? What is its message and theology? What insights does it offer today? Susanne's book is "Blake's 'Jerusalem' As Visionary Theatre: Entering the Divine Body". Mark's book is "Awake! William Blake and the Power of the Imagination." www.markvernon.com

  • May 5 · 35 min

    Making Sense of the Resurrection of the Body. A conversation with Rupert Sheldrake & Mark Vernon

    Many people report apparitions of their loved ones after death, and even of loved dogs and cats. But how do these after-death communications align with the Christian teaching of the resurrection of the body? In this episode of the Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon explore the evidence for the post-mortem appearances of humans and non-humans, and ask how it fits with the accounts of Jesus’s resurrection in the Bible. The appearance of Jesus to the disciples and others is often taken as evidence of a physical revival of Jesus after his crucifixion but a subtler, arguably more compelling interpretation is that after-death communications are relatively common - which is the experience the disciples had. Then, the resurrection of Jesus shows something about the nature of the spiritual body, as Saint Paul calls the body that awaits us. But what to make of the empty tomb that had contained the body of Jesus and the variety of activities Jesus reportedly engaged in after his resurrection, and what this might mean for existence after death and the presence of other worlds that are also here and now? Find 100 more conversations with myself and Rupert online.

  • February 17 · 1 hr 36 min

    The King's Philosophy of Harmony: Explained. A Conversation with Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon

    For the 100th episode of The Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon considered the role of harmony, wholeness and hope in the modern world. The event was held in-person as well as streamed online. The evening took as its inspiration the work of King Charles, who can be called a philosopher king. It follows the February 6 release on Amazon Prime of the documentary “Finding Harmony: A King’s Vision”. But what is this philosophy? Rupert and Mark explore new ways that are old of looking at the world, aided by science, poetry, and perennial wisdom traditions. How is diversity transformed by awareness of unity? How might the unfolding of life aid transformation? Spirit, imagination and intelligence much matter. The conversation was held in the Parish Church of St John-at-Hampstead. For more of Mark and Rupert's conversations see - https://www.markvernon.com/talks

  • February 15 · 15 min

    Sexual drives wreck lives. And yet, the erotic opens paths to paradise, shows Dante's Divine Comedy

    Christianity doesn’t do well with erotic love. The unease stems, in part, from the fact that the word “eros” doesn’t appear in the New Testament. The lacuna means that points of reference for discussions about sex are typically inadequate and thin. Command stands in for clear thinking. Then, there is Saint Paul’s remark: “marry if you must” (1 Cor 7:8-9). His ambivalence has resulted in sexual relationships being hidden in marriage, hoping that there, they do less harm than good. Lady Hillingdon’s remark comes to mind, to lie back and think of England - the wit glossing oceans of suffering. That said, there are remarkable exceptions to the handwashing, of which, in the Christian West, the shining example is The Divine Comedy. Dante’s understanding of the way romantic love can initiate a path to God is fearless, instructive and, because intrepid, transformative. We need it now for, as William Blake observed, “Our wars are wars of life & wounds of love.” For more on Mark and his book about Dante's Divine Comedy - www.markvernon.com

  • January 23 · 37 min

    Patron Saints and Genii Locorum. My 99th conversation with Rupert Sheldrake, plus details of the live 100th!

    Saints, bodhisattvas and genii locorum, or spirits of place, are the names in various wisdom traditions given to guardian beings who protect, assist and inspire. So what does it mean to call on these sacred beings? In this episode of the Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon discuss the role of patron saints who are associated with churches and shrines, days and names. What powers might figures from Saint Mary to Saint Nicolas bring to us? How do we call upon them and how is their presence understood? Rupert and Mark explore the ways in which saints connect heaven and earth in individual lives, particular places and at various times of the year. ANNOUNCEMENT The next episode of The Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues will be the 100th! In celebration, Rupert and Mark will talk with an in-person audience that people will also be available to join via live streaming. We will meet in the Parish Church of St John, Hampstead, on Sunday 15th February. The dialogue itself will start at 6.15pm and you are warmly invited to attend Choral Evensong at 5pm before. DETAILS OF TICKETS - https://buytickets.at/thesheldrakevernondialogues/2010539 Rupert and Mark will consider the role of harmony, wholeness and hope in the modern world. Themselves inspired by the book, Harmony, co-authored by King Charles, they will inquire into new ways that are old of participating with the living cosmos, aided by science, poetry, and perennial wisdom traditions. How is diversity transformed by awareness of unity? How might the unfolding of life aid transformation? Spirit, imagination and intelligence much matter.

  • January 15 · 1 hr

    Ramana Maharshi in the West and Transcendence Revisited. A conversation with Clare Carlisle

    What is the meaning of religious experience? What do spiritual questers from the West find in India? Just what happened to Ramana Maharshi and others who are said to have awakened? And how does this fit with Christian teaching and belief? I talk with Clare Carlisle who has recently published a book the mixes the personal and the philosophical. Transcendence for Beginners raises many questions that press for those draw to explore the nature of reality and the presence of the divine. We talk about why Carl Jung didn’t visit Ramana Maharshi when he visited India. We ask whether the doctrine of the unique incarnation of Jesus can be reconciled with the Indian intuition that there are many incarnations of God. We explore how these things can be written about and taught, if at all. We ask about the significance of miracles and signs - and the risks of pursuing certain types of spiritual, ecstatic experience. For more information about Transcendence for Beginners - https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=clare+carlisle+trasnedence+for+beginnings&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 For more information about Clare Carlisle - https://www.kcl.ac.uk/people/clare-carlisle For more on Mark's work - https://www.markvernon.com

  • Dec 19, 2025 · 1 hr

    New Born Wonder. Jesus, Owen Barfield, William Blake

    How can we understand what is happening today from the perspective of what is sometimes called salvation history? What might be struggling to be born in our times? Why is a spiritual analysis - an unfolding of consciousness - key? The talk was delivered at The School of Myth, “Wild Christ”, weekend with Martin Shaw, Rowan Williams, Heather Pollington and others. I use the insights of Owen Barfield and Rudolf Steiner, to interpret developments across 3000 years of Christianity, given the movement of spirit began a millennia before Christ. I also take their lead on the value of William Blake to perceive the significance of what Blake called a “New Age” emerging now - which we might love, too. My book unpacking Barfield’s interpretation of Christianity is “A Secret History of Christianity: Jesus, the Last Inkling and the Evolution of Consciousness”. My book on Blake’s prophetic analysis of the dynamics active today is “Awake! William Blake and the Power of the Imagination”. For more see www.markvernon.com

  • Nov 23, 2025 · 32 min

    The Quiet Revolution and the New Theism. A conversation with Rupert Sheldrake

    The mood has shifted. Subjects that were once taboo - like God - are now discussed openly. So if a new theism is abroad, what might it bring? In this episode of the Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon ask why individuals engaged in pursuits from cultural critique to theoretical biology are now actively interested in traditions such as Christianity and Platonism. What is new about this turn and what is old? What does it mean in terms of understanding our humanity, the sciences and wider cosmology? And how can these new currents be best assessed and discerned? Rupert and I have almost 100 dialogues online. For more on Rupert see - https://www.sheldrake.org For more on Mark see - https://www.markvernon.com

  • Nov 20, 2025 · 46 min

    Tantric Blake. The magic and the mysticism of William Blake

    An interview with Mark Vernon at the Harvard Divinity School with Adam Walker. Mark Vernon's book is "Awake! William Blake and the Power of the Imagination". Adam Walker’s YouTube channel is Close Reading Poetry.

  • Nov 14, 2025 · 46 min

    Cleansing the Doors of Perception. William Blake, Romanticism and the Meaning Crisis

    The Romantic movement is a tragic movement. In response to the Enlightenment, poets and painters sought a return of feeling but failed in one crucial aspect: to ground the vision, to make clear how it is a means of truth. The result is that, alongside the wonderful, powerful presence of reason in the modern world, runs a desire to intensify feeling is if that can bring back the meaning otherwise lost to the technological and abstract. Only, ungrounded, Romantic feeling doesn't. Instead, too often, it leads to reactionary nationalism, fundamentalism in religion, hedonism and sentimentality, and modes of inner healing that offer exaggerated experience as a proxy for transformation. William Blake spotted this tendency. He realised that Romanticism must come of age, to borrow the expression of Owen Barfield, by understanding the imagination as a way of knowing of and growing into the fundamentals of existence. In this talk, delivered to the Centre for the Study of Platonism at the University of Cambridge, I explore how Blake conveyed the crucial awareness that might redeem the tragedy of Romanticism, so damaging alive in the modern world. For more on Mark, and his book about Blake, "Awake!", see www.markvernon.com

  • Oct 27, 2025 · 36 min

    Ode to Joy Podcast. A conversation with Paul Wilkinson and Mark Vernon. Music That Shapes Us podcast

    A psychotherapist, philosopher and writer drawn to the wellsprings of both ancient and modern philosophy and the illumination of the inner life. His work moves between the timeless and the modern, exploring friendship and belief, wellbeing and wonder, and the quiet art of living with depth in a restless age. His recent books trace paths through the visionary landscapes of William Blake, the awakening of spiritual intelligence, the pilgrimage of Dante’s Divine Comedy, and the Christian imagination as seen through Owen Barfield — the Oxford Inkling and close companion of C.S. Lewis. You can find out more about Paul via his website - www.paulwilkinson.co.uk You can find out more about Mark via his website - www.markvernon.com

  • Oct 27, 2025 · 1 hr 14 min

    William Blake Masterclass at the Unherd Club. With Esmé Partridge, Mark Vernon and Florence Read

    At a time of renewed interest in the spiritual, what could challenge the uninspiring notion of ‘cultural Christianity’? One answer is by embracing the esoteric. William Blake, the painter and poet, has become a model for a new kind of rebellious spirituality. Though he spent his life in poverty and obscurity, Blake’s radical vision of the divine is now a cornerstone of modern mysticism. Psychotherapist and podcaster Mark Vernon, author of ‘Awake! William Blake and the Power of the Imagination’, and religion researcher, Esmé Partridge, talk in a masterclass, hosted by Unherd in London, on the meaning and mythos of Blake. 0:00 What world Blake was responding to 2:15 What did Blake mean by Newton’s sleep? 5:28 How did Blake see the natural world? 8:30 Why did Blake react against the Christianity of his day? 11:50 Understanding “The Garden of Love” 13:50 Understanding “The Marriage of Heaven and Hell” 16:50 Blake against the ills of today: sentimentality and unforgivingness 18:40 The road of excess and erotic desire 21:47 Navigating the contrary tensions of life 25:15 Blake’s mythological figures 29:30 What about Los and Jerusalem? 32:30 What about Blake’s view of politics and revolution? 36:50 How do you cleanse the doors of perception? 40:20 So in what way was Blake Christian? 43:46 How did William and Catherine support themselves? 46:52 How do we distinguish between imagination and fantasy? 49:51 How can Blake be helpful to modern psychology? 52:30 How can Blake help us reach for the eternal? 56:10 How can Blake bring meaning to life? 57:30 What would Blake make of Nietzsche? 1:00:00 What would Blake make of Spinoza? 1:01:30 Can we diagnose Blake and his visions? 1:03:20 What about Blake and cultural Christianity today? 1:05:30 What did Blake make about violence? 1:07:43 Can you say more about Catherine Blake? 1:09:30 Blake’s wit about his visions 1:10:54 Can you comment on Blake and Englishness?

  • Sep 27, 2025 · 1 hr 1 min

    Rouze Up Souls of the New Age! A conversation with Malcolm Guite on William Blake

    “Man has no Body distinct from his Soul,” declared William Blake. “Nature is imagination itself!” The human face is the “countenance divine”. Inspiring, yes. But what can we make of his sayings? Mark Vernon sat down with poet Malcolm Guite to discuss how Blake’s ideas about the imagination challenge modern ways of perceiving the world. They stress that dismissing Blake’s converse with angels dismisses the radicality of what he has to offer. They explore how the division between the subjective and objective, which Guite calls “epistemological apartheid”, is false and has terrible consequences for human beings, personally and politically. They argue that theology needs a revival of the imagination as the way we apprehend truths that put the fire into rational comprehension. For more on Mark’s book, “Awake! William Blake and the Power of the Imagination” see www.markvernon.com For more on Malcolm Guite see https://malcolmguite.wordpress.com 0:00 Ways of knowing 01:46 Don't medicalise Blake! 3:30 The senses are inlets of soul 5:25 A fundamental, false division 12:07 Imagination makes real not makes up 16:35 Demystifying the imagination 20:48 Eternity in the present and particular 26:58 Reason the bound of energy: Geoffrey Hill on Blake 32:09 Blake's aphoristic philosophy 33:20 The renewal of Christianity 42:56 The generative teaching of Jesus 44:46 Energy and the Holy Spirit: Barfield on Blake 48:17 Albion crucifies the imagination 54:21 Contraries that create not conflict 58:29 Selfless perception

  • Sep 24, 2025 · 34 min

    The Wisdom of the Imagination. A conversation with Rupert Sheldrake

    Note: This upload is a correction to the previous file uploaded under this title! The imagination is often regarded as a valuable but fanciful capacity. But what if imagination were not an optional extra, or even the possession of human beings alone, but a fundamental feature of reality? In this episode of the Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon draw on the ideas of William Blake to explore Blake’s insistence that “nature is imagination itself!”. They discuss how the understanding of the imagination has contracted in recent times, though also how modern science is a remarkable exercise in the imagination. They consider matters from how the Platonic notion of ideas relates to cosmic and evolutionary novelty, to whether angels can be said to be imaginative and creative. Mark’s new book is "Awake! William Blake and the Power of the Imagination". For more information see https://www.markvernon.com/books/awake-william-blake-and-the-power-of-the-imagination.

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