Divorce Dialogues

The Self-Fulfilling Prophecy Behind High-Conflict Divorce | Erin Levine

Could securing a divorce attorney actually heighten complications instead of safeguarding your interests? Certified family law specialist, mediator, and Hello Divorce founder and CEO Erin Levine explains why navigating a divorce doesn't have to mean choosing between going at it completely alone or turning everything over to a lawyer. Erin shares the three problems she saw repeatedly in twenty years of practicing family law: unpredictable cost, unnecessary conflict, and a legal-only approach that ignores everything else changing in someone's life. She and Katherine talk through how transparency and the right mix of support, whether that's a mediator, a financial expert, or a lawyer for one piece of the process, can lower the temperature of a divorce instead of raising it. Learn how to figure out what kind of help you actually need, and how to stay the decision-maker in your own divorce. What you'll learn: Why the "lawyer up or DIY" choice is a false one, and what exists in between; The three biggest problems driving people away from traditional divorce; How transparency in the process can lower conflict between spouses; and Why relying on AI for major divorce decisions comes with real risk Highlights: (00:00) Meet Erin Levine (05:06) The three problems with traditional divorce: cost, conflict, and complexity (07:39) What exists between DIY and "lawyer takes over" (08:43) Inside Hello Divorce: procedural help vs. expert support (11:59) How a divorce navigator helps you figure out what you need (14:35) Why silence and lack of transparency make divorce messier (21:15) Where AI helps, and where it creates false confidence (23:54) How to stay the decision-maker with your own lawyer (28:57) What "protecting yourself" actually means About our guest, Erin Levine LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinlevine Hello Divorce: https://hellodivorce.com/ About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group Katherine’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/ More on her book “The Emotionally Savvy Divorce” at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/ Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: shareyourgenius.com

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The Mortgage Mistake That Traps Divorcing Spouses | Jody Bruns

Most people going through divorce ask, "How do I keep the house?" But what if that's the wrong question entirely? Katherine sits down with Jody Bruns, founder and president of the Divorce Lending Association and author of A House Divided: A Guide to Mortgage Financing and Divorce, to unpack the emotional and financial complexities of housing decisions during divorce. Jody explains why treating the house as a purely financial asset misses the point, and why feasibility today doesn't guarantee sustainability tomorrow. She and Katherine dig into the hidden costs people overlook, from insurance and title risk to the tax trade-offs of holding onto a low mortgage rate, and why "can I qualify" is a very different question than "can I actually afford my life." Get insights about separating the emotional pull of the family home from the numbers, and why real stability might mean letting go. In this conversation, you'll learn: Why the mortgage math is only part of the equation, and what "feasible, affordable, and sustainable" really means; The hidden risks in insurance and title that most divorcing homeowners never see coming; Why refinancing hesitancy over a low interest rate can cost you more than it saves; and How reframing "how do I keep the house" as "how do I create a stable future" changes the decision entirely Highlights: (00:00) Meet Jody Bruns (00:58) Why the house is so hard to let go of (03:16) Why the house sits at the intersection of finances and identity (05:01) The Colorado mom and the baseball tournament story (07:40) Why "treat it like a business deal" is bad advice (09:13) Home, security, and identity (10:31) The onboarding process and building a Plan B (13:06) The stories people tell themselves about affording the house (20:17) Legal vs. mortgage pitfalls, and the "netting effect" (23:35) Insurance and title risks after divorce (25:53) What helps people make thoughtful housing decisions (26:44) The better question to ask instead of "how do I keep the house" About our guest, Jody Bruns LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodylbruns/ Divorce Lending Association: https://www.divorcelendingassociation.com/ About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group Katherine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/ More on her book "The Emotionally Savvy Divorce" at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

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Your Custody Battle Is Hurting Your Kid More Than Your Divorce | Michael Saini

When a child says “I don’t want to go,” the most important question may be: why? In this episode, Michael Saini, professor and Factor-Inwentash Chair in Law and Social Work at the University of Toronto, breaks down how courts, lawyers, and parents can separate genuine safety concerns from the noise of custody conflict. Drawing on nearly two decades of research and parenting plan evaluations, Michael explores why labels like alienation or abuse can miss the complexity of a child’s experience, why a quiet child may still be struggling, and what helps protect children through separation. Tune in to learn why conflict, not divorce itself, is what actually harms kids, and how one competent parent can be enough to help a child come through separation okay. In this episode, you'll learn: How to tell the difference between alienating behavior and a genuine safety concern; Why professionals shouldn't assume a quiet or agreeable child is doing fine; How to reframe anger toward a co-parent into identifying the real underlying worry; and Why "good enough" parenting, not perfect parenting, is what protects kids through divorce. Highlights: (00:00) Meet Michael Saini (03:14) What splitting looks like and why kids get caught in the middle (05:10) Why it's so hard to separate real risk from conflict fallout (06:40) Alienation, denigration, and the umbrella of parent-child contact problems (08:52) The research-backed assumptions professionals get wrong (11:48) The conflict-driven custody narrative and how it takes shape (15:18) Winnicott's "good enough" parenting and why it protects kids (22:17) What to do when a safety concern is genuine (24:10) The one reframe that changes how you handle co-parent anger (25:10) Why exposure to conflict, not divorce itself, is what harms kids About our guest, Michael Saini LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-a-saini-5693044a/ University of Toronto, Factor-Inwentash Faculty of Social Work: https://socialwork.utoronto.ca/profiles/michael-saini/ About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group Katherine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/ More on her book "The Emotionally Savvy Divorce" at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

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How to Heal After Divorce with Oona Metz

Grief after a divorce doesn't wait for the paperwork to catch up, and it rarely leaves the same moment the case closes. In this episode, Oona Metz, LICSW, CGP, psychotherapist, and author of Unhitched: The Essential Divorce Guide for Women, joins Katherine to map the emotional side of divorce that the legal process never touches. After running weekly divorce support groups for 16 years, Oona built a five-phase model that reflects how women actually move through loss, from the first heartbreak through the rollercoaster of conflicting emotions to finally reinvesting in a new life. She also speaks to where traditional divorce resources leave LGBTQ+ women out of the picture. Tune in to understand why healing from divorce rarely moves in a straight line, and how naming what you're feeling can lead to clearer decisions and a more dignified path forward. In this episode, you'll learn: The five phases of divorce grief, from heartbreak to moving on; Why grief resurfaces even years after a divorce is final; How to tell the difference between a partner's behavior and their character; Where traditional divorce resources fall short for LGBTQ+ women; and Why understanding your feelings can lead to steadier, clearer decisions Highlights: (00:00) Meet Oona Metz (06:39) Phase One: Heartbreak (10:35) Behavior versus character in a marriage (12:18) Phase Two: The Rollercoaster (13:54) Phase Three: Mending (14:33) Phase Four: Letting Go (17:06) Phase Five: Moving On (19:11) Why divorce grief doesn't move in a straight line (24:33) Where traditional divorce resources fail LGBTQ+ women (28:46) Oona's advice before you start the divorce process (29:17) Reframing grief as part of healing About our guest, Oona Metz LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oona-metz-licsw-cgp-6a14a41b/ Website: https://www.oonametz.com/ About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group Katherine’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/ More on her book “The Emotionally Savvy Divorce” at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

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How Emotions Affect Your Divorce Decisions | Katherine Miller, The Emotionally Savvy Divorce

Divorce can make even simple decisions feel harder. Fear, anger, guilt, and resentment can shape what you say, what you ask for, and what you agree to before you realize they are driving the process. In this episode of the Emotionally Savvy Divorce series, Katherine Miller, family lawyer and mediator at Miller Law Group, tackles the belief that good divorce decisions require setting emotions aside. Katherine shares why trying to remove emotion from divorce is neither realistic nor helpful. Instead, she explores how emotional awareness can help you respond more thoughtfully, make clearer decisions, and stay focused on the future you are trying to build. Listen in for a grounded look at how self-awareness, not emotional suppression, leads to better decisions during divorce and a stronger foundation for the life on the other side of it. In this episode, you’ll learn: Why trying to "keep emotions out of it" during divorce is a myth The difference between reacting and responding, and why it matters A simple framework for separating your feelings from your decisions Three questions to ask before a difficult conversation or decision Highlights: (00:00) Meet Katherine Miller (00:50) Welcome back to the Emotionally Savvy Divorce series (01:43) Part One: The Problem — Why we think we have to ignore emotions (03:36) How emotional and rational decision-making work together (05:04) Part Two: The Trap — Reacting instead of responding (06:36) Why reacting lets your ex define you instead of yourself (08:09) Part Three: The Shift — What emotionally savvy people do differently (09:25) Separating your feelings from your decisions (10:49) Part Four: A real-life mediation that almost fell apart (14:25) Today's reframe, three questions, and closing thoughts on the series About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group Katherine’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/ More on her book “The Emotionally Savvy Divorce” at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

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Better Divorce Settlements Start With One Question | Katherine Miller, The Emotionally Savvy Divorce

What if the thing you're fighting hardest for in your divorce isn't actually what you need? In this episode of the Emotionally Savvy Divorce series, Katherine Miller, family lawyer, mediator, and author of The Emotionally Savvy Divorce, breaks down one of the most useful distinctions in any negotiation: positions versus interests. Most people walk into divorce already certain of what they want. Katherine explains why that certainty is often standing in the way of a better outcome. Using real mediation stories, including a custody case built around a family's summer vacation home, Katherine shows how asking "why does this matter to me?" can turn a stalemate into a solution neither side saw coming. Listen in for a conversation about why letting go of a position isn't losing, and how understanding your real interests opens up possibilities that arguing over demands never will. In this episode, you'll learn: Why the thing you ask for in divorce often isn't the thing you actually need How to tell the difference between a position and an interest The four-prong test for identifying what really matters to you How reframing a demand can turn a stuck negotiation into a shared problem to solve Highlights: (00:00) Meet Katherine Miller (02:07) Part One: We confuse positions with needs (03:37) What an interest actually is, and why it matters (05:16) Part Two: We become attached to one solution (06:44) Unpacking what a position, like staying in the house, is really giving you (08:40) Part Three: Discovering the interest beneath the position (10:29) The four-prong test for naming your real interest (13:11) Part Four: A real-life example, the vacation home custody case (16:35) Episode guide questions About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group Katherine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/ More on her book "The Emotionally Savvy Divorce" at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

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Why Fairness Is a Trap in Divorce | Katherine Miller on The Emotionally Savvy Divorce

What if the thing you're fighting for in your divorce is actually keeping you stuck? In this episode of the Emotionally Savvy Divorce series, Katherine Miller, divorce attorney, mediator, and author, unpacks why "fair" might be the most dangerous word in a divorce negotiation. Katherine explains why two reasonable people can go through the same divorce and both walk away feeling wronged, and why chasing fairness often costs more in legal fees, time, and happiness than it's worth. Drawing on a real client story involving betrayal and a long, hard-won path to rebuilding, she shows what happens when someone finally lets go of being right in favor of moving forward. Tune in for a mindset shift that could change how you approach every hard conversation left in your divorce. In this episode, you'll learn: Why fairness is a personal experience, not an objective fact The difference between fighting to be right and fighting to be happy Why the legal process can't give you emotional closure Three questions to ask yourself before your next difficult conversation Highlights: (00:00) Introducing the Emotionally Savvy Divorce series (01:35) Part one: The problem (03:05) Why fairness is personal, not objective (03:58) Part two: The trap (04:35) Would you rather be right or be happy? (05:55) The recognition trap: why both people feel wronged (06:41) Divorce as a legal process vs. an emotional one (09:09) Part three: From fair to workable (11:40) Compromise isn't failure, it's negotiation (12:52) A real story: rebuilding life after serial betrayal (16:49) Reflection: Why fairness is a trap in Divorce About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group Katherine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/ More on her book "The Emotionally Savvy Divorce" at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

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Choosing Dignity Over Winning: Katherine Miller on The Emotionally Savvy Divorce

Divorce doesn't have to be measured by who wins. What if success meant something entirely different? In this episode, Katherine Miller, divorce attorney, mediator, and author, opens her Emotionally Savvy Divorce series by redefining what a successful divorce actually looks like — not in the courtroom, but in the life you build afterward. Most people never stop to define what winning a divorce would even mean. Katherine explains why so many clients default to protecting the house, the custody schedule, or their pride, and how those goals are really just reactions, not a definition of success. She walks through why the winner-loser framing of divorce is largely false, why chasing it can cost far more than it's worth, and how holding onto resentment rarely brings the relief people expect. Tune in for a conversation about shifting the focus from what you're fighting against to what you're actually building, and why the decisions you make today are votes for the life you want after divorce is over. In this episode, you'll learn: Why most people confuse strategy and reaction with a real definition of success; Why the winner-loser framing of divorce rarely reflects reality; How to identify what you're actually protecting — and whether your actions align with it; and Three questions to ask yourself before every major divorce decision Highlights: (00:00) Introducing the Emotionally Savvy Divorce series (03:38) Part one: The problem (03:40) Why most people never define what success means (04:59) The false assumption of winners and losers (06:06) Part two: The trap (06:08) How chasing "winning" becomes the wrong goal (07:09) Untangling your identity from your marriage (09:28) Part three: The new definition of success (09:31) Divorce as a legal, emotional, and family transition (13:13) Finding your priorities before the deal-making begins (16:28) Part four: A real life example (16:31) Marcy's story: rebuilding life after betrayal (19:19) What a successful divorce looks like (19:40) The Reframe: three questions to ask yourself About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group Katherine’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/ More on her book “The Emotionally Savvy Divorce” at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

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Don't Use AI for Divorce Until You Watch This | Jamie Lima of SecureSplit

Divorce isn't just a legal problem, it's an emotional one too—so what happens when people start bringing that problem to AI before they bring it to anyone else? In this episode, @Jamie Lima, divorce financial specialist and co-founder of SecureSplit, unpacks why so many people are turning to AI first during divorce, sometimes before they've spoken to a lawyer, therapist, or financial advisor, and what that shift actually means for their outcomes. Drawing on his own divorce and his work helping clients navigate the financial side of separation, Jamie makes the case that AI can be a genuinely useful tool for organizing thoughts, managing emotional communication, and understanding complex documents. But he's equally clear about where it becomes dangerous. Tune in for a grounded conversation about prompting AI the right way, why "trust but verify" should be the rule for anything AI tells you about your case, and why no amount of technology replaces having real people in your corner during one of the hardest transitions of your life. In this episode, you'll learn: Why people are turning to AI before they contact any divorce professional; How to prompt AI correctly so it gives you useful, accurate information instead of generic answers; Where AI can genuinely help with divorce-related emotional and financial complexity; and Why relying on AI for legal outcomes or replacing your support system can lead to costly mistakes Highlights: (00:00) Meet Jamie Lima (03:02) How AI could have changed Jamie's own divorce (07:02) Why treating AI like Google is a big mistake (08:50) Why AI learning your voice is a double-edged sword (10:34) The emotional need AI fills, and the risk of it placating you (12:56) Always ask for citations: the case of the disbarred attorney (14:32) Where AI gets it right (17:00) Why AI creates a false sense of certainty about legal outcomes (18:27) The best way to use AI to review your lawyer's work (23:08) The Reframe: AI should not replace human professional advice (24:55) Why surrounding yourself with a real support team still matters About our guest, Jamie Lima LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamielima/ SecureSplit: https://securesplit.com/ About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group Katherine’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/ More on her book “The Emotionally Savvy Divorce” at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

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Ronald Platt on Why Post-Divorce Growth Requires the Discomfort You’re Avoiding

Divorce recovery isn't about getting over your marriage. It's about building something new after it. In this episode, Ronald Platt, CEO of the National Association for Single and Divorced Families (NASDF), talks about what actually happens once the paperwork is signed and the legal process ends. Most people prepare for the legal side of divorce for months, sometimes years. Almost no one prepares for what comes after. Ronald walks through the real challenges that show up once the ink dries: learning to live alone, coordinating a co-parenting relationship you never planned for, rebuilding a sense of community, and figuring out who you are outside the marriage. He also shares his own story of financial collapse and personal reinvention after his divorce, and what it taught him about getting through the hardest stretch of a life transition. Tune in for a grounded, hopeful conversation about why divorce is the start of a new chapter, not just the end of one, and what it actually takes to build a life you recognize as your own. In this episode, you'll learn: Why the hardest part of divorce often begins after the legal process ends; How to rebuild community and connection when isolation sets in; What healthy co-parenting requires that most people don't expect; and Why rushing into a new relationship can keep you repeating old patterns Highlights: (00:00) Meet Ronald Platt (02:38) What people are least prepared for after divorce (03:52) Learning to live alone again (04:53) Why isolation hits men and women differently (06:22) Co-parenting and staying connected for your kids' sake (09:11) Why rushing into a new relationship can backfire (12:14) Rebuilding your finances after a shared household (14:42) Overcoming the fear of loneliness and putting yourself out there (19:18) Why this generation struggles to connect in person (20:08) What kids need most during the transition (22:07) The most common mistake: overcompensating instead of showing up (23:22) Finding hope when the future feels uncertain (27:25) The one belief about divorce recovery you need to let go of About our guest, Ronald Platt Website: https://www.nasdf.org/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronald-platt-a6b49016/ About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group Katherine’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/ More on her book “The Emotionally Savvy Divorce” at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

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After the Divorce: Rebuilding Your Sense of Self with Barbara Parker

Think the divorce was the hardest part? Wait until you hear this. In this episode, BF Empowerment CEO Barbara Parker, relationship coach, licensed mental health therapist, and author of A Powerful Divorce, walks through what it actually takes to rebuild after a marriage ends, not just the legal paperwork, but the identity, trust, and boundaries that have to be reconstructed from scratch. Barbara argues that divorce rarely announces itself as one clean decision. There's the legal process, yes, but underneath it sits an emotional, financial, and spiritual unraveling that most people don't see coming until they're in it. She talks openly about her own divorce, the mistakes she made assuming a low-cost dissolution would be enough, and how that experience shaped her work helping clients recognize the childhood patterns and blind spots that led them into unhealthy relationships in the first place. Tune in for a conversation about why healing after divorce isn't about getting back to who you were, but discovering who you're becoming, and why the people who thrive are usually the ones willing to reconnect with themselves first. In this episode, you'll learn: Why the legal process is often the easiest part of divorce, not the hardest; How childhood wounds and family patterns quietly shape who we choose to love; The financial and safety planning that has to happen before someone can safely leave; and What actually separates people who stay stuck from people who rebuild Highlights: (00:00) Meet Barbara Parker (02:50) What inspired Barbara to write A Powerful Divorce (05:04) The emotional, financial, and spiritual aftermath nobody warns you about (07:16) How family of origin creates blind spots in relationships (08;59) The financial realities of leaving, including safety planning for domestic violence (12:09) What separates the people who thrive from the people who stay stuck (20:50) The biggest boundary mistakes people make during and after divorce (26:05) The Reframe: why "I'll never love again" isn't true (27:09) A client's transformation from crisis to thriving About our guest, Barbara Parker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/queenblparker/ BF Empowerment Center: https://www.bfempowerment.com About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group Katherine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/ More on her book "The Emotionally Savvy Divorce" at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

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Divorce Financial Planning: How to Stop Making Decisions Out of Fear with Gabriella Martinelli

Divorce is a financial restructuring, but most people only treat it as a legal battle. In this episode, Gabriella Martinelli, divorce financial strategist and founder of Ever After Wealth, sits down with Katherine and breaks down why financial decisions made during divorce are so hard to get right, and what it takes to make them well. Gabriella's central argument is deceptively simple: divorce is a high-stakes financial restructuring disguised as a legal event, constantly hijacked by emotions. The problem isn’t rooted in people being irrational; it's that they're being asked to make permanent financial decisions while living through temporary emotions. Tune in for a conversation about what financial clarity actually looks like during divorce, why money is a tool and not a prize, and how understanding your numbers can shift you from fear-driven decisions to ones that build toward the life you actually want. In this episode, you’ll learn: Why financial fear during divorce is rarely about the money itself; How emotions override even the most experienced, successful decision-makers; What to do first if you have no idea where your finances stand; and How a clear financial plan changes the way you negotiate—and the outcome you walk away with Highlights: (00:00) Meet Gabriella Martinelli (03:00) Why divorce doesn't walk through the door alone (06:12) Permanent decisions, temporary emotions (09:58) What financial fear is really about (13:00) How information replaces anxiety (17:00) When emotions override business owners and executives (22:05) Where to start when you don't know your numbers (25:14) What separates people who feel empowered from those who stay stuck (26:01) A real case: from "just say yes" to a successful counter-offer (29:35) The mindset reframe that changes everything (31:15) What surprises Gabriella most after years in this work About our guest, Gabriella Martinelli Website: everafterwealth.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabriellamartinelli-divorce-financial-strategist/ About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group Katherine’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/ More on her book “The Emotionally Savvy Divorce” at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

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Andrew O'Brien on Why Divorced Dads Need Community

Most divorce conversations center on paperwork, parenting plans, and finances. The loneliness fathers carry through that process rarely gets a seat at the table. In this episode, Andrew O'Brien, founder of Dad Tribes, talks openly about what men actually go through when a family separates — the silence of an empty house, the loss of a social life that was built around a relationship, and the quiet guilt of feeling like your needs shouldn't take up space. Andrew is living it in real time: he moved into a new home days before this conversation was recorded, six kids and a minivan's worth of belongings in tow. Together, Katherine and Andrew get into why so many fathers wait years — sometimes a decade — before leaving a relationship they know isn't working, why anger becomes the default emotion when men don't have community to process what's happening, and what it actually looks like when a dad finds his people again. This is a conversation about what fathers need to hear before, during, and after divorce — and why the support they build around themselves matters as much to their kids as it does to them. In this episode, you'll learn: Why "if my kids are happy, I'm happy" is a mindset that backfires — on the kids and the father; What happens emotionally when the social life a couple built together disappears overnight; Why men often stay in relationships far longer than they should, and what keeps them there; How to take the first steps toward rebuilding community after separation; and What children actually gain when their fathers stop pretending everything is fine Highlights: (00:00) Meet Andrew O’Brien and Dad Tribes (05:48) Rebuilding from Nothing: Andrew's Own Separation (08:26) Why Isolation Is the Biggest Hidden Struggle (13:12) When Men Are Treated Like an ATM (14:44) How Loneliness Shapes Parenting During Divorce (15:53) How to Start Rebuilding Community (18:21) A Father's Emotional Health and a Child's Wellbeing (20:11) Common Misconceptions About Divorced Fathers (23:12) What Every Father Should Know Before Divorce (24:25) Reframing Divorce as an Expansion, Not a Breaking (25:37) What Happens When Dads Finally Find Their People About our guest, Andrew O’Brien Website: https://www.dadtribes.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-obrien-dad-tribes/ About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group Katherine’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/ More on her book “The Emotionally Savvy Divorce” at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

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When Support Stops: Protecting Your Family with Jeff Landers

Your settlement agreement is signed, but what happens if the money stops coming? In this episode, divorce financial specialist Jeff Landers returns to break down one of the most overlooked risks in divorce: the fragility of alimony and child support. Death, disability, a job wiped out by a failing industry can make court-ordered support disappear overnight. And most settlement agreements offer no protection against any of them. Jeff has worked on over 1,000 divorce cases nationwide and rarely sees disability insurance included in a settlement. He explains why that gap exists, what it costs families when it goes unfilled, and how to think about financial protection before you sign, not after. The conversation moves beyond insurance mechanics into the real decisions people face: how to build a realistic post-divorce budget, why the receiving spouse should own the life insurance policy, when keeping the house actually works against you, and why rushing to finalize an agreement because you're emotionally exhausted is one of the most expensive mistakes you can make. Tune in for a practical, grounded conversation about securing the deal you worked so hard to negotiate and making sure it actually holds. In this episode, you'll learn: Why alimony and child support are far more fragile than most people assume; The difference between group disability insurance and the private coverage that actually protects support payments; How to calculate the right life insurance coverage amount — and why a made-up number in the settlement agreement doesn't cut it; What "present value" means and why it matters when protecting future financial obligations; and Why the time to get insurance in place is during negotiations, not after the divorce is finalized. Highlights: (00:00) Meet Jeff Landers (02:31) How fragile is support, really? (05:19) Death, disability, and what the courts can and can't fix (07:53) The homeowners insurance analogy (09:55) Who carries the most risk (and why) (13:14) Get the policies before the divorce is final (13:23) Most common financial mistakes in divorce (19:04) Making life insurance less intimidating (20:43) How to calculate the right coverage amount (22:11) Understanding present value without the math panic (23:14) What people wish they'd known sooner (25:06) The reframe: financial protection as peace of mind About our guest, Jeff Landers Jeff’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jefflanders/ Hello Monthly Income: https://hellomonthlyincome.com/ About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group Katherine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/ More on her book The Emotionally Savvy Divorce at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

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Divorce as a Second Chance with Holly Moore

Divorce ends a marriage. It doesn't have to end your sense of self. In this episode, family law attorney, founder of Moore Family Law Group, and host of the podcast Made For Moore, Holly Moore, talks about what divorce actually costs people beyond the legal fees: their identity, their confidence, and the story they thought their life was supposed to tell. Holly and Katherine dig into why so many people arrive at divorce already hollowed out — not by the split itself, but by years of losing themselves inside the marriage. Their conversation moves through grief, shame, the weight of other people's expectations, and what it genuinely takes to stop surviving and start rebuilding. Tune in for a conversation that treats divorce less as a legal event and more as a turning point. One that, chosen or not, opens a door most people didn't know was there. In this episode, you'll learn: Why identity loss often begins long before the divorce papers are filed; How the grief in divorce is less about the person and more about the "shoulds" we've been carrying; What it takes to stop operating from a victim mindset — and why it matters strategically, not just emotionally; and Where to start when you feel completely disconnected from yourself and don't know who you are anymore. About our guest, Holly Moore LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hollyjmoore/ Website: https://moorefamilylawgroup.com/ Made for Moore Podcast: https://moorefamilylawgroup.com/podcast/ About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group Katherine’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/ More on her book “The Emotionally Savvy Divorce” at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

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Kelly Lise Murray on Why Smart People Make Costly Mistakes in Divorce

The most expensive divorce mistakes aren't made in the courtroom – they're made in the sequence of events that lead you there. In this episode of Divorce Dialogues, Katherine Miller speaks with Kelly Lise Murray, professor, financial strategist, and Co-founder and CEO of Vetting the House, about the hidden sequencing problem at the heart of most divorce settlements.Together, they unpack why even highly accomplished people make costly financial decisions during divorce—not because they lack intelligence, but because they're operating with a brain under siege, incomplete information, and pressure to just get it done. Kelly draws on her work at the intersection of real estate, tax strategy, and financial advocacy to show how the order in which you make decisions determines what you actually walk away with. If you've ever felt the pull to just accept a deal and move on, this conversation will make you think twice—and give you the tools to slow down before it costs you. In this episode, you'll learn: Why the sequence of asset sales, not just the assets themselves, determines your tax liability; How the "divorce brain" reduces your decision-making capacity — even if you're highly accomplished; Why property division is permanent, and the questions to ask before you agree to anything; and How to use tax timelines and divorce milestones together to protect your financial outcome. Highlights: (00:00) Meet Kelly Lise Murray (02:56) The Sequencing Problem in Divorce Settlements (04:23) Capital Gains, Exclusions, and the Two-House Trap (05:49) Why Smart People Make Expensive Mistakes (07:44) Building the Right Financial Team (17:55) What "Permanent" Really Means in Property Division (27:26) The Reframe: Mapping Tax Years Against Divorce Milestones (29:31) Your Voice Is Your Preparation About our guest, Kelly Lise Murray Website: https://vettingthehouse.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellylisemurray/ About Divorce Dialogues and Miller Law Group Katherine’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemiller1/ Miller Law Group: https://miller-law.com/ More on her book “The Emotionally Savvy Divorce” at: https://katherinemiller.com/book/

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