MusicMusic CommentaryExplicit

Critical Listening

Sharp takes on music technology and culture industry hell. A new podcast from journalist Liz Pelly and musician/educator Max Alper. Support the show and find bonus content at patreon.com/criticallistening

Play

Open in

24 episodes
fortnightly
Avg 47 min
English

Episodes 24

Newest Oldest Longest

All20 Unplayed20 In progress0 Played0

Counted on this page — what you have heard stays on this device, so it is not something the list can be paged by.

#25
Wednesday · 6 min
Episode 25: September 2026 Headlines (PATREON PREVIEW)
Earlier this month, Suno unveiled its new "v6" model, advertising it as the first product created with material licensed from Warner, BMG and Believe. But it also says the model is trained on the "creations" of its users, opening up new conversations in the gen-AI licensing discourse. If a so-called legal model is trained on user "creations" that were in-turn made using an old, unlicensed model, what is materially different? We get into all of the above, as well as Suno's claims that its "v6-wild" mode can help make user generations more "wild" and "weird". What does that say about the state of popular gen-AI music apps? For our second headline we're looking at a new "artist incubator program" Spotify announced tied to its Fresh Finds playlist, wherein 10,000 artists will get comp access to AI-assisted music platforms such as Splice, LANDR and (checks notes) Better Help. What is an artist incubator program to a streaming service? Why might the world's biggest streaming service be trying this out now? All this and more in the September edition of Headlines, our subscriber-bonus series where Max and Liz each bring a story from across the music-tech and biz press to summarize, contextualize and discuss. If you ever want to hear these convos but can't swing the 5 bucks a month, send an email, no questions asked, to criticallisteningpod@gmail.om and we'll send it your way. But if you can afford it, consider becoming a subscriber here on Patreon to support our efforts to keep having critical conversation about music, technology and culture industry hell. Thanks for listening.
#24
September 18 · 56 min
Episode 24: Sweeping Promises
Welcome back to another episode of Critical Listening, DIY Lifers edition. For our third installment of Listening Habits, our series where we talk to musicians about how they interact with music on an everyday basis, we're joined by Lira Mondal and Caufield Schnug of the Lawrence, Kansas group Sweeping Promises. We met on the occasion of their new record, You Say I Romanticize, released in August on Sub Pop, for a truly inspired and wide-ranging conversation. In the first half, we dig into: why Mondal and Schnug decided to move from Boston to Kansas, how they used their record label advance to buy a house and turn it into an affordable recording studio for DIY bands, joining the local all-ages show booking collective, how underground music culture can help teach political organizing skills to young people, and more. Then, in the Listening Habits segment, we talk about cassettes, music discovery parlor games, their love of record stores, and some really great ideas on what it means to be a critical listener. Lira and Caufield said their go-to source for music discovery these days has been email newsletters, and they were nice enough to even send us over a list of some of their favorites, which you can check out below in the show notes. Thanks for listening and thanks again to Sweeping Promises for joining us. This episode is free for everyone, but if you want to support us having more conversations with independent artists about the social power of music, consider becoming a subscriber. Sweeping Promises Recommend These Music Newsletters: Trick Bag → trickbag.substack.com Courtesy Desk → courtesydesk.substack.com YellowGreenRed → yellowgreenred.com See/Saw → see-saw.fun Death Rock Fairy → deathrockfairy.substack.com Chasing Sundays → elienis.com Sound Bites → soundbitesnyc.substack.com The Future is Ours to Make → thefutureisourstomake.substack.com
#23
August 31 · 5 min
Episode 23: August Headlines (PATREON PREVIEW)
As usual, this Headlines episode is for paid subscribers only. Head to Patreon.com/criticallistening to access all of our monthly Headlines episodes, as well as our Discord community, and occasional bonus segments. Jimmy Iovine recently told the New York Times that he "doesn't see a downside at all" when it comes to generative AI music, despite that tens of thousands of fully AI-generated recordings are reportedly flooding streaming services every day. Is he being sincere as a legendary producer, or is he speaking with his wallet as a billionaire? We dive into this question and much more in this episode of our Headlines series. Alongside our discussion of the much-talked-about Times interview with Iovine and Dr. Dre, we also discuss the new "AI Persona" badges that Spotify has announced in order to label non-human artist profiles on the platform, and whether or not this approach will make a difference in the long run.
#22
August 14 · 53 min
Episode 22: L'Rain
For Episode 22, we spoke with songwriter, multi-instrumentalist, producer, and curator Taja Cheek, on the brink of her group L’Rain’s fourth record, fata morgana, out today on Mexican Summer. Taja is a lifelong New Yorker with roots in underground cultural organizing and the institutional art world alike; in addition to her work as a musician, she is also currently the Artistic Director at Performance Space New York. In the first half of the show, we spoke about the new album and what it means to challenge an audience in today's political and social climates. For the second half of the show, we return to our Listening Habits series to learn about how Taja listens to music on a daily basis, her relationship with music technology, how her work as a curator influences her approach to music discovery, how a music recommendation text message from Kyp Malone of TV On the Radio changed her life, and much more. Lastly, Max and Taja go way back, so we also talked at length about the makeshift venue they used to run together out of Taja's basement in Brooklyn, how that period shaped her creative trajectory, and DIY politics in general. That will be available for Patreon subscribers as a bonus segment early next week, so please sign up to hear material like that, our monthly Headlines episodes, and access our Discord community. Thanks again to Taja for joining us and thanks for listening!
#21
July 31 · 2 min
Episode 21: July 2026 Headlines (PATREON PREVIEW)
The CEO of SoundCloud recently revealed that he regularly seeks advice from what he calls his “AI board”—a model he trained on the interviews and writings of top pop musicians and record industry executives. So for our July 2026 Headlines segment we are wondering: did AI Billie Eilish tell him to buy Nina Protocol? We might not be able to give you an exact answer but we do dive into what we know about the deal and what it might mean for musicians. We are also discussing the Kalshi power-users who recently learned that streaming is, in fact, not a meritocracy, and that digital charts are (shocker) very easily manipulated. Head to Patreon.com/criticallistening to subscribe for all of our monthly Headlines episodes, Discord community, and occasional bonus segments.
#20
July 24 · 1 hr 1 min
Episode 20: Why Panda Bear & Sonic Boom's New Record is Not Streaming
Why did Panda Bear and Sonic Boom decide to not put their new record, A ? of WHEN, on any streaming services? And how did they get their label, Domino Recording Co, on board? For episode 20 we're joined by the Lisbon-based Animal Collective and Spacemen 3 members to dive into all of this and more. Since the launch of the pod, we've been hoping to have these sorts of conversations centered on divestment from streaming platforms--not just about why artists are opting out, but the specifics of what they are doing instead--and we thank Noah and Pete for joining us to chat through it. We also couldn't pass the opportunity to ask the two about the ongoing AI debates in music, specifically for their perspectives on the differences between generative AI music and the culture of sampling, the latter of which has been integral to their artistic processes for many years. This episode is now available for free, but if you'd like to support the show so we can keep having more conversations with artists challenging the inevitability of streaming, please consider becoming a paid subscriber on our Patreon. Subscribers also get access to our monthly "Headlines" episodes, our Discord community, and occasional bonus clips.
#19
June 29 · 4 min
Episode 19: June 2026 Headlines (PATREON PREVIEW)
For this month's installment of our monthly headlines show, we're digging into two stories around the increasingly entwined worlds of generative AI and music streaming. First, a look into a new tool created by the French streaming platform Deezer that shows users how many gen-AI tracks are already on their own playlists. Is this just another hollow marketing campaign by a tech company, or something that's actually useful? What role should streaming services be playing in the fight to label AI slop? Who should be accountable for the labor impacts of extractive AI tech on music? Then we look to the role lawsuits are playing in that equation, as we unpack the recent announcement that the American Federation of Musicians is suing Universal and Warner, claiming their AI deals violate the collective bargaining agreement set between the union and the majors. As usual, this episode is available Critical Listening's Patreon members. If you are not yet a subscriber, please consider joining for five bucks a month to access this conversation along with all of our Headlines episodes, bonus segments, and Discord community. Thanks for listening!
#18
June 1 · 4 min
Episode 18: May 2026 Headlines (PATREON PREVIEW)
We're back for another Headlines episode for the month of May 2026. As with all Headlines episodes this season, this episode is a subscriber exclusive. You can listen to it in full and catch up on older headlines and more by signing up for our Patreon at patreon.com/criticallistening. This month we dive in to some major developments in the world of music tech as we discuss the acquisition of German music production software conglomerate Native Instruments by their American rivals InMusic, one of their only direct competitors as far as power and monopolization is concerned. We also discuss the recently announced details regarding the new proprietary generative AI tools made for Spotify in direct partnership with Universal Music Group and what this new precedent in licensing and "fan-made covers and remixes" might mean for the other major genAI developers on the market.
#17
May 15 · 1 hr 1 min
Episode 17: Maine Music Alliance
Welcome back! This month we are joined by Peter McLaughlin and Scott Mohler of the Maine Music Alliance. They explain how local musicians in Portland, Maine successfully stopped Live Nation from opening a 3300-cap venue in their town. It is a truly inspiring story involving musicians organizing to save local spaces during the COVID-19 lockdown, and eventually turning that network out in massive numbers—building a broad coalition, showing up to city council meetings, and convincing local government to modify city building codes that ultimately stopped the development. “It was a good day for the little guys,” they told us. Peter and Scott get into the weeds with us to explain how and why it all went down, and advice for other artists who want to organize against Live Nation in their towns. Learn more about their org at mainemusicalliance.com (https://mainemusicalliance.com/). And if you enjoy this episode please consider becoming a paid subscriber at patreon.com/criticallistening so we can keep interviewing artist-organizers about pushing back against corporate power in music!
#16
May 1 · 4 min
Episode 16: April 2026 Headlines (PATREON PREVIEW)
We’re back with another Headlines episode, and this month it’s our first time spending the whole episode on one story. You probably already know which one it is. For this month we are begrudgingly wading into the discourse that has ensued following the Wired piece “The Fanfare Around the Band Geese Actually Was a Psyop,” published April 14. We dive into the manipulative tactics of “trend simulation” agencies like Chaotic Good, how pre-existing laws around deceptive advertising can reign them in, and what music lovers can do to fight these attempts to manufacture taste. Our monthly Headlines episodes are for Patreon subscribers only so please head to Patreon.com/criticallistening to support the show, get early access to all episodes, and also access our Discord community. Thanks for listening!
#15
April 17 · 1 hr 44 min
Episode 15: Wendy Eisenberg
For today's episode of Critical Listening we are joined by guitarist, songwriter and improviser Wendy Eisenberg to launch a new segment, "Listening Habits." Wendy joined us a few weeks before the release of their new self-titled album, which is out now on Joyful Noise Records. In the first half of the show, we speak with Wendy about their own work as a musician and a teacher. We discuss the new album, a class they are teaching this fall on theorizing musical community, and also some headier stuff like virtuosity and hooks. In the second half of the show, we introduce the new "Listening Habits" series, where we are talking to musickers about how they actually listen to music on an everyday basis. We talk to Wendy about their mp3 player, how they learn about new music, why they hate listening to music on a phone, and what it means to be a Critical Listener. This episode features songs from Wendy’s new record. Thanks for listening and please head to patreon.com/criticallistening to support the show with a monthly subscription.
#13
April 7 · 42 min
Episode 13: Following the Money with Henk Willem Smits
What happens when a private equity company takes over a music festival? For this Critical Listening live taping at the ESNS Conference in Groningen, we spoke with Dutch investigative journalist Henk Willem Smits to unpack this very question. Smits works with the community-supported outlet Follow the Money, specializing in tax avoidance by multinationals and wealthy individuals in music, and the intersections of private equity and electronic music culture. His 2025 piece "Loud Music, Silent Takeovers" specifically looked at the 1.3 billion euros spent by U.S.-based private equity firm KKR on music festivals in recent years. In his reporting, Smits has found that after private equity buys festivals, they can be subject to higher ticket prices, more commercial partnerships, and homogenized lineups driven by Spotify and TikTok data—in order to "tailor lineups more precisely to audience demand," he wrote last year. "A lot of festivals, especially smaller dance festivals, don't have big margins," Smits told us. "It's a very small margin business. So what you see now is management layers getting fired... That is something that happens a lot, but that is not something the audience notices. What also happens is you see some festivals not being organized. Or they skip a year." Below, see some more highlights from our conversation with Smits, which also covered his reporting on the connections between KKR and Israel, and how pop stars use the Netherlands as a tax haven. How else do festivals change when they are acquired by private equity? "They have to increase the margins because they paid a lot of money [for these festivals]... One financial analyst said that if they want to get that money back and also make a profit the [margin] has to raise with 10s of percents a year. That is very ambitious, very, very ambitious.... There is pressure here." What has been the biggest takeaway from your festival reporting? "There is logic to going up into a bigger structure. But when you sell your company, you really don't have anything to say about the ownership anymore... I heard from a manager in music and he said what he learned from the story was that you have to check the whole chain. So you have to check who is behind the festival, but also who's the owner of the festival, and who's the owner of the owner." Are there any open questions for you, still, regarding the relationship between private equity and live music? "I would love to speak to KKR. I would love to know if they regret buying Boiler Room. But they have a sort of policy that they don't talk with the press... which I find strange, because this is a company that has $600 billion of investments. But then you also have, of course, responsibilities. They invest in a company that rents out houses in occupied places in the West Bank. It would be interesting if they could explain, at least, why they think they have to do that. But it's a responsibility they take. They don't see themselves as part of society. They just have to make money."
#14
April 1 · 3 min
Episode 14: March 2026 Headlines (PATREON PREVIEW)
Hey all, we're back with another headlines episode. This month we start by digging into UMG CEO Lucian Grainge's recent appearance on stage at a NVIDIA-hosted conference described as the "Super Bowl of AI," where he was discussing his company's partnership with the AI-enabling tech giant. What does this say about different ways major labels are embracing AI beyond the headline-grabbing licensing deals for gen-AI content? We unpack the ways labels seem to be embracing so-called tech solutions to continue recycling their mountains of IP, look at some of Grainge's most outrageous quotes from the story, and try to figure out whether or not we are truly at the end of music history. For the second headline, we are covering the 2026 installment of "Loud and Clear," Spotify's annual crisis PR campaign disguised as a music economics "transparency" report. In particular, we're looking at Spotify's claim that a new "class" of artists generating $100,000 annually is emerging from its platform, and what context is needed to understand the true lack of meaning in these stats. As you may have noticed, this is our first headlines episode that is Patreon exclusive. For now these headlines episodes will be available only to subscribers, while our interview episodes will remain free and publicly available. We also have a couple of reported features and a new artist interview series in the works, so if you've been considering a subscription this would be a great time to throw us five bucks a month. Sign up at patreon.com/criticallistening to access the full episode, thank you!
#12
March 6 · 53 min
Episode 12: February 2026 Headlines
Welcome back to another episode of Critical Listening. For this month’s Headlines, we’re joined by Hearing Things co-founder and longtime music critic Jill Mapes to discuss her recent piece “The Wasserman Exodus is A Different Kind of Reckoning” about the artists protesting music exec Casey Wasserman’s appearance in the Epstein files. Before that we’re also talking about Spotify’s recent 2025 Q4 earnings call, where it presented a financial update to shareholders, and what it says about the company’s most recent positions on generative AI and the visions of its new leadership. Or, as we’re calling it: “Liz reads the transcript of the Spotify earnings call so you don’t have to.” Thanks for listening! Remember to support the show by subscribing to the Patreon If you are enjoying these Headlines episodes please tell a friend about the show or leave a review on your podcast app. This episode will be made available on all public platforms besides you-know-where next week. Music for this episode includes two pieces by the late great Éliane Radigue: "Occam Delta XV" and "Jetsun Mila".
#11
February 11 · 51 min
Episode 11: Live from Groningen
WE’RE BACK. Today we start the year with a dispatch from what some may call the front lines: a bunch of AI-related panels at a European music biz trade conference. It’s also our first episode recorded in person! We are starting our new season with two episodes recorded in the city of Groningen in the Netherlands, where we were invited to participate on some panels and to host a live taping of the show at the annual conference and festival ESNS. That live taping—an interview with Dutch investigative culture reporter Henk Willem Smits—will drop later in the month. But before then, we have another conversation we recorded while we were in Groningen, reflecting on some panels we saw as well as ones we participated in. Did Max survive his first music industry conference? Did Liz learn anything being on a panel alongside someone from a certain French DSP that has been labeling AI tracks? Why did we choose to attend something called “Automate or Die Trying” when we could have done literally anything else? And why are there never any musicians at these things? All this and more on Episode 11 of Critical Listening. Support the show for access to bonus episodes and our Discord at patreon.com/criticallistening.
#10
Dec 24, 2025 · 1 hr 21 min
Episode 10: Season Finale w/ Anthony Fantano (The Needle Drop)
As 2025 comes to a close, so does the first season of Critical Listening. And with us to send off the year, we have none other than the internet's busiest music nerd himself: Anthony Fantano of The Needle Drop. We discuss how public perception of streaming culture discourse has shifted this past year, his efforts to offer a critical perspective on the music industry in his videos, the state of on-screen music journalism in 2025, and more. We also dive into Anthony's background as a music journalist, the influence of public radio on his work, what media integrity means for video-first critics, and his general thoughts on music media after over 15 years of running a successful online platform. We had a lot of fun chatting with Anthony and we hope you will enjoy this culmination of Season 1. Thanks to all who pledged their monthly support to make this first season of Critical Listening happen, we can't wait to show you what we have in store for 2026. If you haven't yet please subscribe to the Patreon atpatreon.com/criticallistening. See you all in the New Year! The tracklist for this episode includes some of our shared fav releases from the past year. Support these artists by buying their music: Keiyaa - Take It Purelink - Rookie ft. Loraine James Chat Pile / Hayden Pedigo - Never Say Die Deerhoof - Immigrant Songs
#9
Dec 9, 2025 · 54 min
Episode 9: November 2025 Headlines LIVE at Purchase College
We are back for our penultimate episode of Season 1 of Critical Listening! Recorded on November 13th at the coveted Stood at Purchase College, we're discussing the latest developments in the Spotify deal to create "artist first" generative AI tools in partnership with major labels and distributors. We also review the platform's continued growth as it rounds out its second full year of profitability and what that means for both artists and users alike. We have just uploaded the second part of this episode for Patrons only where we take questions directly from the students of Purchase College themselves, sign up now at patreon.com/criticallistening to catch up on the full season and bonus episodes before our season finale at the end of the year! Do you want the Critical Listening team to do a live taping at your college, music venue, conference, record store, or general hang in 2026? Shoot us an email at criticallisteningpod@gmail.com and let's chat!
#8
Nov 26, 2025 · 1 hr 37 min
Episode 8: Amirtha Kidambi
For Episode 8 we have composer, educator, curator, and activist Amirtha Kidambi stopping by. We discuss Amirtha's various musical outputs, including her Elder Ones ensemble and her recent duo release with Matt Evans as Neti-Neti. We discuss the inseparability of politics from pedagogy as teaching artists, the importance of solidarity amongst working artists and the need for us to Do-It-Together rather than simply DIY. Amirtha has a new podcast out called Outernational that explores the relationship of music and revolution through poignant conversations with fellow artists around the world, subscribe and support her work via her Substack and Bandcamp. Support critical and independent media at the intersections of music, tech, and culture industry hell by subscribing to our Patreon.
#7
Nov 5, 2025 · 55 min
Episode 7: October 2025 Headlines
We’re back with another headlines ep, where Liz and Max each bring one story from across the music-tech biz press to summarize and contextualize. On this ep we are unpacking the imminent major label deals with gen-AI companies. At the time we recorded, those reportedly landmark deals were thought to be signed within weeks, and since recording we’ve already started to see more details emerge. We discussed some implications of Spotify being included on the list of companies major rightsholders are working out gen-AI deals with, and more details of that collaboration have already dropped, too. Lastly, we of course also spoke about what it means that Daniel Ek is stepping back from his role as CEO of Spotify. Thanks for tuning in, remember to support the show by joining our Patreon & head over to the Discord if you want to chat about anything mentioned on the show!
#6
Oct 20, 2025 · 1 hr 30 min
Episode 6: Why Sound Matters w/ Damon Krukowski
We're back from a month of touring and we missed you! We are thrilled to have musician and author Damon Krukowski on the show to discuss his upcoming book "Why Sound Matters", available everywhere on October 21st from Yale University Press. We discuss Galaxie 500, Damon & Naomi, the acoustic ecology writings of Bernie Krause, the Boston independent music scene in the 1980s compared to today, and how much of the material aspects of music relate directly to the labor issues in sound as a whole. Support the show and listen to exclusive bonus content from this episode at patreon.com/criticallistening.

Showing 1–20 of 24 episodes