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Chillpak Hollywood Presents ...

Dean and Phil

A wide array of audio content from your friends in podcasting, Dean Haglund and Phil Leirness!

deanandphil.substack.com

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Saturday · 51 min
Celebrity Deaths
If you have not become a regular listener of Celebrity Deaths then you are really missing out on what is consistently one of the most fascinating and funny podcasts not only in the “Chillpak Hollywood Presents …” universe of shows, but anywhere! So, join your friends in podcasting, Dean Haglund and Phil Leirness, as well as their friend in podcasting, Jon Lawlor, as a high-stakes game of celebrity trivia gets played and the following media notables get remembered … *Bill Harris, member of the Symbionese Liberation Army and convicted kidnapper of Patty Hearst *Journalist, social movement activist, and a leader of second-wave feminism, Gloria Steinem *Lucien Smith, the young artist who turned his back on the art world he had conquered to help other young and emerging artists *Canadian rock star, Sass Jordan *American R&B great, Freddie Jackson *The beloved actor who played “Mr. Belding” on several television series, Dennis Haskins *Eva Marie Saint, a luminous, Oscar-winning star, and one of the last-surviving icons of Hollywood’s Golden Age Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please become a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
Thursday · 1 hr 10 min
The Art Life
For a few years now, good friends Dean Haglund, Phil Leirness, and Jon Lawlor have been meeting via Zoom to hold each other’s feet to the fire in their shared desires to create art that is filled with life while also endeavoring to live life more artfully. Near the end of 2025, we starting making the bulk of these meetings available in podcast form, and we call that podcast “The Art Life”. Welcome! On this week’s installment … *How Jon spent his birthday and what jury duty on the actual day allowed him to learn about himself *Across the Chillpak Hollywood Presents … universe of shows, the concept of “liminal space” has been getting a lot of play (as depicted in films, on television, and in books) and this week, the exploration of liminal space expands into the “real” world and is tied into such previously discussed topics as urban spelunking and the “serial butt sniffer” *Probably a little too much time gets spent talking about the 1980s movie Goonies , but that conversation leads into a discussion about the richest people in the world and the hollow concept of “treasure” *The madness/artistry of rifle heir, philanthropist and frustrated architect Sarah Winchester *More on the intriguing steamer trunks Dean will be receiving (in 2027 most likely) *Phil’s new monthly stage show and how he is approaching its creation Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please become a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
October 5 · 1 hr 1 min
Chillpak Hollywood Hour
Despite being recorded later than we like, and despite one of your friends in podcasting definitely “playing hurt”, this installment certainly proves to be a delight. Much hilarity starts the show, in no small part thanks to an email from a loyal listener like you (yes, YOU!), before Dean and Phil get into a fascinating conversation about the court-approved settlement terms for the merger of Paramount/Skydance and Warner Bros. Discovery. The “Live Event of the Week” returns, thanks to the launch of Phil’s own monthly stage show! He and Dean discuss, and Phil reveals he busted up his ankle falling down a flight of stairs many weeks back. Dean has begun his homework for the next “Deep Dive” into (neo) noir, and has thoughts about François Truffaut’s 1960 New Wave crime drama Shoot the Piano Player. Finally, since “spooky season” has begun, Phil does an in-depth comparison of John Carpenter’s 1982 The Thing and Ridley Scott’s 1979 Alien. Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
October 3 · 1 hr 14 min
Television with Marc Hershon
Marc Hershon is a branding expert who has dreamed up names for countless hit products. He is a comedy veteran, a comedy impresario, and he teaches improv comedy. He has penned several television movies, and is the co-author of I Hate People, a guide to getting “what you want out of your job.” He has reviewed comedy podcasts for The Huffington Post and Splitsider and was the longtime producer and host of “Succotash” the comedy podcast podcast. Marc has spent much of his adult life trying to get people to stop using the word “podcast” and to use “soundcast” instead. Yet, he refers to this show as a “podcast”. He’s mercurial, that guy. We wouldn’t call this an “emergency” pod, but there was a LOT of material for Marc and host Phil Leirness to cover … *What the court-approved merger between Paramount/Skydance and Warner Bros. Discovery means for a couple news outlets, a couple cable channels, two different streaming platforms, DC Entertainment, and the HBO series “Lanterns”. *Why a hit show for Apple TV might not exactly be what anyone considers a “hit show”. *Two listeners wrote about some of their various “comfort” watches, “binge” watches, and “nope” (not going to and you can’t make me) watches. *Marc and Phil weigh in on the three in-progress seasons they have both been watching: Season one of “Lanterns”, season four of “Ted Lasso”, season six of “Slow Horses”. *Marc offers reviews of the just-launched “Brothers”, the recently concluded “Colin from Accounts” and season 2 of “Dark Matter”. *“Liminal Space” is a topic that is becoming a major conversation point in several different shows throughout the Chillpak Hollywood Presents … universe of shows. Marc and Phil begin to tackle it from a television perspective. *Phil regales Marc with previews of many soon to debut shows and seasons hitting the “airwaves” between now and Thanksgiving. *Finally, what’s with all these “Best of Television” lists being published two-thirds of the way through the year, and 26 years into the century? Marc tries to explain, he and Phil offer commentary, and Marc follows up by offering his list of The Ten Best Lists of 2026! Come for the news, views, previews and reviews. Stay to see if you can figure out the connection between the classic TV instrumental theme used to open the show and the theme song with lyrics used to close the show! Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
October 1 · 1 hr 8 min
The Art Life
Jon Lawlor blew out a whole lot of candles on his cake this week. So, on NEXT week’s installment of “The Art Life”, his co-hosts, Dean Haglund and Phil Leirness are sure to hold his feet to the fire of those candles to find out what mindfulness he brought to the ritual of celebrating his birth, his years on the planet, and the start of another go ‘round. On THIS week’s exploration of how best to create art that is filled with life, while also endeavoring to live more artfully, the following topics get explored … *Urban spelunking *The repeat criminal offender in the greater Los Angeles area who inspires Dean to utter the phrase, “buttocks aroma checker” *The parody film National Lampoon’s Loaded Weapon 1, its creative team, and the effect of parody films in general *How Jon is listening with greater perspective, consciousness and intent, especially when confronted by someone he believes might never have felt listened to before *What Dean means when he says, “Water is my big ‘How do you do?’”? *Why Dean can’t wait to receive steamer trunks sent to him from Sweden *Life advice from the late, great Lou Reed, as passed along in performance by his widow, performance artist Laurie Anderson Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please become a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
September 28 · 1 hr 3 min
Chillpak Hollywood Hour
If we know anything after almost 20 years of podcasting, it’s that people love hearing “production meetings on the air”! If that’s true, then what a show we have for you, with not one, but THREE production meetings – two of genuinely hilarious varieties and the third pertaining to movies like Backrooms, Exit 8, Universal Language and the television series “Severance”. In between those meetings, Dean and Phil share the thoughts of a loyal listener and roll up their sleeves to roast almost everybody involved in the “will they or won’t they” Paramount/Skydance merger with Warner Bros. Discovery. The glory of the once great Paramount Pictures gets re-visited using the all-time Hollywood classic Sunset Boulevard and the just-released season finale of “Star Trek: Strange New Worlds” season 4 as the gateway for this exploration. Come for the analysis, stay for the story about Phil stealing something! As if that all weren’t enough, Dean and Phil go deep on a perplexing television movie from 1974, its famous writer, its all-star cast, and its legendary cinematographer. Finally, Stop! That! Train! gets fully appraised. Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
September 26 · 51 min
Celebrity Deaths
One of the most popular ongoing segments in Dean Haglund and Phil Leirness’ long-running, weekly “Chillpak Hollywood Hour” was always when they celebrated the lives and legacies of those who made indelible marks in the arts or in media. Now that Celebrity Deaths has become its own podcast, these celebrations are no longer merely interesting and inspiring. They are, at times, truly bizarre and hilarious, especially with frequent contributor Jon Lawlor now along for the ride. So, join your friends in podcasting (and Jon Lawlor) as the following media notables get remembered … *Beloved tough guy actor Vincent Pastore *One of the best-selling and most influential artists of all-time, the brilliant Yayoi Kusama *Naked Eyes vocalist Pete Byrne *Rosalind Ashford, the unforgettable high soprano on the timeless songs recorded by Motown’s Martha and the Vandellas *90s Pop star who became a multiple Tony Award-winning Broadway composer, Duncan Sheik Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please become a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
September 24 · 1 hr
The Art Life
Dean Haglund is back from Sweden and ready to unpack what he learned about artful living during his travels and share it with Jon Lawlor and Phil Leirness in their continued pursuit of creating art that is filled with life, while also endeavoring to live more artfully. This podcast is all about those themes. That is why we call it “The Art Life”. This week’s other topics include: *Dean’s plans to “decode” his family’s history *The great artist Yayoi Kusama and the almost five decades she spent in a hospital for the mentally ill *How the (apparently) terrifying behavior of AI models serves as a mirror for man’s folly *Healthy ways of dealing with fear *Asking, “What’s right about this?” *Pattern recognition Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please become a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
September 21 · 1 hr 4 min
Chillpak Hollywood Hour
Hindsight, like this episode, is 20/20 (Year 20 Episode 20, get it?) and so Dean and Phil begin this week’s show with a clip from the long-running ABC news magazine show “20/20” from the mid-1980s and remark upon just how contemporary those clips sound! From there, the upcoming “Blade Runner 2099” television series gets previewed and the latest in the lawsuit surrounding Paramount’s on-hold merger with Warner Bros. gets analyzed (and laughed about). Phil wants to know why Dean isn’t watching the terrific “Lanterns” on HBO. The brilliance of director Zach Cregger and the success of his new Resident Evil get appraised. Then, Kiyoshi Kurosawa’s The Samurai and the Prisoner (just in time for its return to cinemas, this time in black and white) and DC’s Supergirl both get reviewed. Finally, the great Ang Lee and his landmark Sense and Sensibility get reappraised (just in time for a new adaptation to get released). Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
September 19 · 57 min
Celebrity Deaths
One of the most popular ongoing segments in Dean Haglund and Phil Leirness’ long-running, weekly “Chillpak Hollywood Hour” was always when they celebrated the lives and legacies of those who made indelible marks in the arts or in media. Now that Celebrity Deaths has become its own podcast in the Chillpak Hollywood Presents … universe of shows, these celebrations are no longer merely interesting and inspiring. They have also become truly bizarre and hilarious, especially with frequent contributor Jon Lawlor now along for the ride. So, join your friends in podcasting (and Jon Lawlor) as the following media notables get remembered … *The indelibly versatile actor, singer and voice artist Tim Curry *Celebrated fashion and costume designer Bob Mackie *Annie Dillard, who as a young American writer walked into the woods and emerged with a book that would win a Pulitzer Prize *Peter Max, a German-born American artist whose bright and colorful works helped define the pop art counterculture movement Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please become a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
September 17 · 1 hr 11 min
Television with Marc Hershon
Marc Hershon is a branding expert who has dreamed up names for countless hit products. He is a comedy veteran, a comedy impresario, and he teaches improv comedy. He has penned several television movies, and is the co-author of I Hate People, a guide to getting “what you want out of your job.” He has reviewed comedy podcasts for The Huffington Post and Splitsider and was the longtime producer and host of “Succotash” the comedy podcast podcast. Marc has spent much of his adult life trying to get people to stop using the word “podcast” and to use “soundcast” instead. Yet, he refers to this show as a “podcast”. He’s mercurial, that guy. On this episode … *Marc and host Phil Leirness cover the good, the bad and the amazing from the Emmy Awards. *Recent cancellations get discussed. *Shows currently in production get previewed. *Marc and Phil both sing the praises of “Diarra from Detroit” season one, and try to make sense of why critics were so cold towards Will Ferrell’s delightful “The Hawk”. *They compare notes on the currently unspooling seasons of “Ted Lasso”, “Star Trek: Strange New World” and “Lanterns”. *Marc offers up three new series suggestions. *Finally, the festivities close with Phil Leirness and Dean Haglund interviewing the great actor, writer and director Dan Butler (Bulldog on “Frasier”) about his all-time television selections. Come for the news, views, previews and reviews. Stay to learn the connection between the classic TV instrumental theme used to open the show and the theme song with lyrics used to close the show! Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
September 14 · 1 hr 13 min
Chillpak Hollywood Hour
Dean Haglund is back from Stockholm and he has brought tales of family mysteries with him! Because Dean is also jet-lagged, Phil Leirness figured this show was the perfect time to ask him about the science of combatting jet lag, about Melbourne, and about wildlife in Australia. Wildlife in Los Angeles, from bears to coyotes to one famous mountain lion, gets celebrated as well. Phil’s suspicions surrounding the lawsuit currently blocking Paramount’s merger with Warner Bros. get discussed. The recent “Deep Dive” Dean and Phil did into 1950s film noir gets re-visited and in the process, the work of writer A.I. Bezzerides, and the early works of Stanley Kubrick get dug into, while an email from Maurice Terenzio about an early work by great noir director Joseph H. Lewis gets shared. Dean watched a whole bunch of current or recent releases on his long flight back from Europe (3BHK, F1, Michael and Good Luck, Have Fun, Don’t Die) and Phil shares his thoughts about the current documentary about the late, great poet Mary Oliver. Even more movies than this get discussed, corrections get made and mea culpas are offered! Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please become a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
September 11 · 1 hr
What We Are Reading
Fans of Chillpak Hollywood Hour know that Dean Haglund and Phil Leirness would discuss books in a frequent segment called “What We are Reading”. It has long been our hope to turn that segment into its own monthly podcast, putting the spotlight on people who are passionate about the published word … First up, a longtime friend of Chillpak Hollywood Hour and of Dean and Phil themselves. In fact, he is the Motor City Adjacent Madman’s Emergency Contact … Matt Giles! Matt has been a writer, a reviewer, a public relations and social media professional, and is now an entrepreneur through his Always & More Mobile Bookstore. Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
September 9 · 58 min
The Art Life
Dean Haglund was literally about to pack for a trip to Stockholm (and a much-needed vacation) when he got together with Jon Lawlor and Phil Leirness via Zoom to hold each other’s feet to the fire in the pursuit of creating art that is filled with life, while also learning how to live more artfully. That is why we call this podcast “The Art Life”. This week’s topics include: *Phil’s ideas for his proposed Yes, And … documentary *More on the objects that the gentlemen think probably define them, including in-depth stories about watches and clocks, boots, coffee, sketchbooks and diaries *The importance of Pub Life *Embracing fear in both conversation and public speaking *Langly’s look on “The X-Files” and “The Lone Gunmen” *Wabi-sabi Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please become a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
September 7 · 1 hr 9 min
Chillpak Hollywood Hour
Dean Haglund is in Stockholm, so for the bulk of the show, this week’s guest co-host, music, arts and culture journalist Yoshi Kato joins Phil Leirness to discuss the death of an all-time jazz great, the implosion of more than one jazz festival and live celebrations of the musical (and movie) legacy of composer John Williams. This leads to a great deal of discussion over the Star Wars franchise, original and recent, including Star Wars: The Mandalorian and Grogu, and several Star Wars-related vinyl records. The summer movie season has come to an end with this Labor Day weekend and it was far and away one for the record books. Will Hollywood learn the right lessons from the big success? Don’t count on it. Yoshi and Phil compare notes on what those lessons might be. They also discuss two current theatrical releases (Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma and Coyote vs. Acme) and the classic, dreamlike French film Last Year at Marienbad, as well as the lasting influence of that film’s star, Delphine Seyrig. Finally, Dean drops in at the end so that he and Phil can pan two films set during World War I, one quite recent (The Choral, starring Ralph Fiennes) and one quite acclaimed (1917). Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please become a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
September 5 · 1 hr 57 min
Deep Dive
In many ways, our expansion of the long-running Chillpak Hollywood Hour into an entire universe of different podcasts here on Substack was inspired by our desire to take some of Dean Haglund and Phil Leirness’ longer form conversations and put them in one place where people can easily find them by topic. So, welcome to DEEP DIVE! This is not just any podcast episode either. It’s the LONGEST conversation Dean and Phil have ever recorded about ANY subject matter! Today’s show features an in-depth analysis of and appreciation for film noir of the 1950s. Let Dean and Phil guide you through a decade of cinematic corruption, abuse, sadism and toxic masculinity in the new-born atomic age. They make a case for 1950 as the true zenith for noir masterworks and try to make sense of the form’s quick descent into oblivion, at least in Hollywood (and on movie screens). The international impact of American film noir gets celebrated and how the genre got transformed moving forward gets previewed. Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and to support our work, please become a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
September 3 · 1 hr 1 min
The Art Life
Jon Lawlor is back from Scotland and ready to get together with Dean Haglund and Phil Leirness to hold each other’s feet to the fire in the pursuit of creating art that is filled with life, while also learning how to live more artfully. That is why we call this podcast “The Art Life”. This week’s topics include: *Jon’s trip to Scotland and his exploration of ruins, his driving adventures, and what he learned about music *Dean’s forthcoming trip to Stockholm and how he hopes to learn whether or not his grandmother was a spy *Country music and bluegrass *The brilliance of Orson Welles *The wonderful comedy film Local Hero *Freeing one’s mind vs. shutting off one’s mind, and mindfulness vs. mindset *The objects that best define Dean, Jon and Phil Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. Creating three new shows each week does not come without costs. To support our work, please become a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
August 31 · 1 hr 2 min
Chillpak Hollywood Hour
From free sex bungalows to Phil’s new monthly stage show, from two popular Netflix series to two Palme d’Or winning movies, from whisper quiet roller coasters to the proper pronunciation of the word “behemoth”, from a sci-fi cult film about a walking television from another dimension to appalling online attitudes expressed about the way popular entertainers look, it’s safe to say that this week’s show truly has something for everyone! So, pull up a chair, put on headphones, crank the volume and join Dean and Phil as they drop in on a Los Angeles City Council meeting, as they visit Universal Studios, as they go backstage at Skylight Theatre, and as they advocate for a world free of violence and full of right speech. We’re pretty sure it’s interesting. We have a sneaking suspicion it might be oddly inspiring. We know it’s utterly hilarious. And, oh, yeah, there are puppets! Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
August 29 · 1 hr 14 min
Celebrity Deaths
One of the most popular ongoing segments in Dean Haglund and Phil Leirness’ long-running, weekly “Chillpak Hollywood Hour” was always when they celebrated the lives and legacies of those who made indelible marks in the arts or in media. Now that Celebrity Deaths has become its own podcast in the Chillpak Hollywood Presents … universe of shows, these celebrations are no longer merely interesting and inspiring. They have also become truly bizarre and hilarious, especially with frequent contributor Jon Lawlor now along for the ride. So, join your friends in podcasting (and Jon Lawlor) as the following media notables get remembered … *Longtime drummer for ZZ Top Frank Beard *Innovator in 24 hour around-the-clock television programming Bill Rasmussen *Mary Heilmann, influential and trailblazing abstract painter *Oscar-nominated director and “actor’s whisperer” Mark Rydell *Child actress-turned-multi-talented performer and activist Hayden Panettiere *Dolly Parton, who was, according to The New York Times, the only thing we can all agree on! Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe
August 27 · 1 hr 5 min
Interview
Dan Butler is known primarily as an actor, having played major roles in theatre, on television and in film. He has also written, directed and produced for all of those mediums as well. Perhaps most widely known for his role as Bob "Bulldog" Briscoe in the NBC sitcom “Frasier”, appearing in every season but one between 1993 and 2004, Dan reprised the role in a 2024 episode of the beloved show’s continuation. He played two different characters in the Hannibal Lecter film franchise, he played the role of NSA Director Admiral Shaffer in Enemy of the State and in 2006, Butler produced and starred in the faux documentary Karl Rove, I Love You (which he also co-directed with Phil Leirness). Dan’s recent film credits include the Marilyn Monroe bio-pic Blonde and his recent television credits include “The Blacklist”. On stage, he played Lenin in the 2018 Broadway revival of Tom Stoppard’s Travesties, he played Truman Capote in American Repertory Theater’s 2017 production of Rob Roth’s Warhol/Capote, and he played Jack in the 2013 Off-Broadway production of Conor McPherson’s The Weir (as well as its 2025 revival). Dan’s poetry has been seen in ONE ART; a journal of poetry as well as the anthology The Path to Kindness, Poems of Connection and Joy. Let Me Lay One On You marks Dan’s debut poetry collection. Part time travel, part investigative wonderment, this chapbook of poetry is a kaleidoscopic journey of people, places, and things that continue to haunt, surprise, and inform the writer – as they will the reader. Chillpak Hollywood Presents ... is a listener-supported joint. To receive new shows and support our work, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deanandphil.substack.com/subscribe

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